108- Strategies for the ADHD-Autism Brain

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Welcome to Every Brain is Different, the podcast where we celebrate the unique world of neurodiversity. We are your hosts, Samantha Foote, a neurodivergent, Board Certified Music Therapist and mom to three kids of ADHD and autism. And Lauren Ross, an ally to the neurodivergent community with over 10 years of experience supporting children and adults with autism.

This podcast is for parents like you. Navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you.

Transcript:

Samantha Foote: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Every Brain is Different podcast. It is Samantha and Lauren here with you, and we are by ourselves today.

We got a request to talk about the competing needs of ADHD and autism because there are so many people with both.

Lauren Ross: Yes, there is, and it's a struggle.

Samantha Foote: It is a struggle [00:01:00] because ADHD is novelty seeking, distractibility, impulsivity, all those different things, and then autism, you have a preference for sameness, a routine, sensory sensitivity, those kinds of things.

And when you have both, it's not like one just goes over to the other side and you just feel one. Like, you're diagnosed with both for a reason. So yeah, there, there's those competing needs.

It's- the psychiatrist described my brain one time as having competing needs, like stepping on the gas, but stepping on the brake of a car at the same time. And I feel like that's kind of what autism and ADHD are like, is that the ADHD is go, go, go. Go experience new things. Go do this. Go do that. And then autism's whoa, whoa, whoa, let's put the brakes on and just do the same thing we've always done. [00:02:00] And so, yeah. It can just make it feel like your brain is constantly sending you mixed signals and you don't know what to do.

So if your child is like that, it can be really hard for them to navigate this world, like even harder than if you just had ADHD or just had autism, 'cause those are, like big enough things. But then what do you do? Like, the person that wrote in said, "We're using," what's it called? A schedule-

Lauren Ross: Schedule.

Samantha Foote: ... but they don't like schedules, but they need a schedule, but they don't like schedules.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: I’m like- yeah, because the ADHD person in them is, "I don't want this schedule. I just wanna do my thing." And then the autism person is, "Well, I want a schedule. I wanna know what's coming next." So-

Lauren Ross: Yeah ...

Samantha Foote: Yeah, so what can we do? I think, [00:03:00] and you can, you can elaborate more on this, Lauren, because you talk to your boyfriend who has both.

Lauren Ross: Yes.

Samantha Foote: And I think the key to navigating ADHD and autism is flexibility. So-

Lauren Ross: Yes

Samantha Foote:... for me anyway, I don't know if I have autism. I have never been tested for it. I know I have ADHD. But for me, if I make a schedule, it can relieve my brain so I know what I'm, should, not should be doing, but what I could be doing, but then I have flexibility- That if I, if my brain's just not feeling it, like doing that thing, I can go do something else and come back to it.

So I think that's the key, is just having flexibility.

Lauren Ross: For sure. I think with that, that flexibility, you know, regard to like flexibility routines, is to not put specifics. Don't say at 8:00 AM we're going here. [00:04:00] Say in the morning we're going here, 'cause then that leaves room for the flexibility. And so I think that's a really big part of it. And then having the use of timers and visual schedules and all of that fun stuff.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Lauren Ross: But that was the biggest thing when I talked to my boyfriend who has both of these, and he just said, "It's, it's why I hide out in my room, because it's just two sides of my brain battling each other and it's hard." But the thing that he said is most helpful is having those flexible routines and, and having the schedule, but leaving room for the unknown and the different and the spontaneity. So...

Samantha Foote: Yeah, like I make a weekly schedule and I used to write down, okay, at 9:00 AM I'm gonna do this, and then at 10:00 AM I'm gonna do this, and then at 11:00 AM I'm gonna do this. But unless there are appointments that you have to be to, that doesn't work for me anymore because one, [00:05:00] I don't know how long something's gonna take. When people would make those lists, I've been like, "But how do you know how long it's gonna take? What if you start doing a project and it takes you, like, two hours?" So unless it's a hard and fast thing, like I have to get my kids to their therapy appointment at 8:00 AM, we have to be there at 8:00 AM. But if it's not something like that, I just say things that I want to do. Like today, I want to clean the kitchen and do my podcast stuff and go to my music therapy sessions, and I don't list by the minute what I'm gonna do, 'cause then you feel like a failure when you don't get it done that way, and you don't want that.

Lauren Ross: Well, and then also the, the autism part of it is it, it's so stringent. If you say 8:00 o'clock and then that doesn't happen, then, then it's hard to, like, read the, the autism side, side of the brain when things like that. [00:06:00] So again, having just that flexibility.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Or if you wake up and you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna do this by 8:00 AM," and then you don't do it, you're like, "Well, I'm a failure for the day, so I might as well not even do the rest of my plan."

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: It's like when you're on a diet and you eat a cheat food, and then you're just like, "Well, I ruined my diet, so now I can eat whatever I want to”.

Lauren Ross: Might as well have the ice cream too.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, just if you're doing this for a child, create flexible schedules. Like we talked about in that parent consultation thing with Andrea, that, let your kid do it the way they need to do it.

So if you say, "Hey, go clean the kitchen," and they don't clean it exactly right- Maybe don't harp on them to do that. Maybe just recognize that they're learning, and so if they [00:07:00] don't do it in exactly 10 minutes that you thought they were gonna do it, or like you can just give them a list of chores for the day.

My sister used to wake up in the morning and she'd be like, "What are my chores for the day?" And if my mom did not give her all her chores, she wouldn't do anything, 'cause she wanted to know what her chores were for the day so that she could do them and get them out of the way, and then move on with life.

And so you can be flexible in saying, "Okay, these are the things that we need to get done today. What order do you wanna do them in?" And then if they start doing them and they're like, "Uh, actually I wanna change the order," that's okay.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: Gonna be fine. And so, yeah, just-

Lauren Ross: Let them.

Samantha Foote: Flexibility. Yeah, let them.

The next one is to regulate the environment, not the child. So this is a situation that maybe you encounter. The ADHD brain seeks stimulation. The autistic brain is overstimulated by the same input, but the ADHD brain wants it. So what do you [00:08:00] do? You can create zones for quiet space for regulation or an active space for movement and noise. You can have both of them, so if your child needs to be active and running around, making noise, let them do that, and then if they get overstimulated by that, then let them have a quiet place that they can go to self-regulate.

You can also offer choices, like noise-canceling headphones, sensory bins, fidgets, movement breaks, anything like that. But just alter the environment so that your child has the ability to choose what they need in the moment, and that might change quickly, 'cause like we just said, ADHD brain seeks stimulation, autistic brain is overstimulated by that same stimulation.

Lauren Ross: Yep.

Samantha Foote: But you need to get the stimulation to satisfy the AD- ADHD brain, and then you need to self-regulate to satisfy the autistic [00:09:00] brain.

Samantha Foote: Hard- Yeah, it’s hard!

Lauren Ross: I can’t, yeah. It, it makes so much sense why my boyfriend prefers to just hide in his room.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Or I just sit here and I, I don't know what to do, and I feel, it's a really weird feeling that I've been having lately where I just don't feel satisfied, and I don't know how to get that satisfaction. Like, my body feels like it needs something, but I don't know what it needs and I never quite-

Lauren Ross: Craving it ... and just, yeah.

Samantha Foote: get it. And so that can just, well, I don't like to say drive a person crazy, but it can drive a person crazy, 'cause you're sitting there and you're just like buzzing because you don't have something that will scratch that itch. I don't know what it is, I don't know what I need, but I need something and I'm not getting it.

Lauren Ross: Right.

Samantha Foote: And so I think that's a lot of times what people with [00:10:00] ADHD and autism can feel like. And so that might be why they're having the maladaptive behavior or the behavior that you don't really wanna see, like aggression and all that, because their body just doesn't feel right.

And so that leads us to-

Lauren Ross: They don’t know

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah. They just don't know what they need.

Samantha Foote: Hey everyone, Samantha here, and I'm thrilled to invite you to join me for something special, the Parenting Power Hour. This is your chance, parents of neurodivergent kids, to bring your questions directly to me and fellow parents in the room. We're here to help you develop actionable plans that really work so you can finally stop the meltdowns and find peace in your home. As a mom to three kids with ADHD and autism, I've seen and been through the challenges too. So trust me, we'll find solutions together that fit your family. Don't miss out on the Parenting Power Hour. It's a free online monthly gathering every second Thursday of the month from 12:45 [00:11:00] to 1:45 Mountain Standard Time. Visit everybrainisdifferent.com to reserve your spot today.

Samantha Foote: And so, the third strategy that we have is to teach internal awareness and body signals. So use co-regulation to help them learn what their body needs.

So you can say, "Is your body feeling too slow or too fast right now? Do you want something quiet or something active?" And just get curious and ask them questions, and then modify the environment to what they need. So we've talked about toolkits before, and you can build your toolkit with movement exercises or music or brain breaks or deep pressure or whatever they need, you can give them options so when they feel like they need something and they don't know what it is, they can try out different things until they get what they need.

And also validate both needs. Like, it's not [00:12:00] bad to need quiet. It's not bad to need stimulation. It's not bad to need deep pressure. It's... None of it's bad. It's just teaching them to understand and be curious about their own bodies to try out things to help them get where they need to be.

Lauren Ross: Teach them about self-regulation

Samantha Foote: Yeah, and so you can even say, "Oh, my body feels really strange right now. I don't know what I need. I'm gonna try this." It's that talking out loud that we've talked about before, where you're talking out loud so they can hear you, not necessarily because you need to talk it out, but just so they can understand the process of how they can get regulated.

Lauren Ross: Yeah. Really great modeling technique.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah, just model it.

The fourth strategy is to scaffold transitions thoughtfully. So the ADHD brain struggles with starting and stopping tasks. Like, I struggle so much with starting things, and then once I get [00:13:00] going, I get so annoyed when people try to stop me. And so this is like every morning where it's, I struggle to get out of bed, I get out of bed, and then I start my daily stuff, and I get out of bed before my kids wake up. But then my kids wake up and I'm like in the zone working, and then they're like, "Mom, I need this. Mom, I need that. Mom, I need this," and it-

Lauren Ross: It's hard to get out of it.

Samantha Foote: It's so hard to get out of what I'm doing. So yeah, the ADHD stru- ADHD brain struggles with starting and stopping, and the autistic brain struggles with shifting between tasks.

And so one way that you can help with this is to use transition helpers. So you can use a countdown, visual timer, or saying, "Hey, we're gonna do this in five minutes," or, "We're gonna do this after this happens, and this is gonna happen." Another thing that you can do is use music. So you can say, "When you hear this sound," or, "When you hear this [00:14:00] song, you have until the end of the song to transition to a new activity." Or, "When you hear this song, you have until the end of it to get your shoes on." And so that way it's not you as the parent telling them what to do, it's just them recognizing on their own, "Oh, that song is playing. It's time to transition." This works really well with kids who have pathological demand avoidance, or PDA. So if you remember, when you tell kids with PDA to do something, they might go into fight or flight, and then- This is just a way that you don't have to tell them what to do. The music is telling them what to do, so they can't argue with the music. Like, it's just-

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: ... it's just that time. And then if they don't recognize that the music is playing, you can say, "Oh, what song is this? What does this song mean when you hear it?" Or just different things like that. So any other words of wisdom, Lauren, on this [00:15:00] topic?

Lauren Ross: I think as a, as a parent, you gotta have a lot of patience. Like, I have to have a lot of patience with my boyfriend, and, and just really knowing when to, they, they need to be left alone. But then, uh, just providing the support, asking them, like you said, "Is your brain too fast? Is it too slow?" Having communication if you can, but just, just be patient 'cause they're, it's like they're struggling with so many things, and then on top of that, it's this internal struggle in the brain that's conflicting, and so there's just so much that, I don't know, I, I feel, I feel for the overwhelm that they probably always feel, so.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Yeah. And so that was awesome. I loved what you said because it's true. Like, if you were overwhelmed all the time, you would probably have meltdowns too. And so when your kid is having a meltdown, my [00:16:00] favorite phrase, as Dr. Zakreski said, "Get curious, not furious." And help your children to get curious. Acknowledge that trial and error, error is normal, that it's normal to try things. Maybe they fail, maybe they don't, but you have to try things in order to see what works for you. And so if you're helping your child navigate this, just the main strategies that we spoke about were having flexible routines, having environmental support, so control the environment, not the child, or adapt the environment, I should say. You can't control the environment but you can adapt it. And then build awareness of their internal needs, so helping them feel what they need and giving them options for strategies on how to help themselves, and then transition scaffolding, where you help them with the transitions and starting and stopping and all of that.

So once again, this [00:17:00] isn't about fixing them. Children and adults with autism and ADHD do not need fixed. I, I used to hear that so much, like 10 years ago-

Lauren Ross: Yeah

Samantha Foote: ... people all the time would be like, "We need to fix them." And I'm like, "We don't need to fix them."

Lauren Ross: They’re not broken.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, they're not broken, and if you have ADHD and autism, you're not broken. We just need to find better ways to support kids and adults with these things so that they can thrive in our world. So there's my soapbox moment. And thank you. Thank you.

I hope that everyone has a good week and that this was helpful. Let us know. Let us know if you try these things and it was helpful, because I would love to know if these things are helpful for you, because this is one of the hardest things that I think there is to tackle when you have the competing needs of both diagnoses. So I'd be [00:18:00] curious to know if this helps anyone, so let us know. And if you want more support, if you wanna talk out some of these strategies, we will be having our Parenting Power Hour this second Thursday, so next Thursday at 12:45 Mountain Time. It's 12:45 to 1:45. You can come, you can talk to me. Hopefully, others will be there. You can talk to them, and maybe just talk out a strategy and see if what you're thinking will work. So yeah, you can go to everybrainisdifferent.com to find that. And we hope you have a good week, and we'll see you next week.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. We hope this discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with support, understanding and inspiration. If you're looking for more support, Or you can go to everybrainisdifferent.com and download the ultimate guide to parenting your neurodivergent child.