112- Scotti Weintraub and Navigating School Challenges with Curiosity and Collaboration

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Welcome to Every Brain is Different, the podcast where we celebrate the unique world of neurodiversity. We are your hosts, Samantha Foote, a neurodivergent, Board Certified Music Therapist and mom to three kids of ADHD and autism. And Lauren Ross, an ally to the neurodivergent community with over 10 years of experience supporting children and adults with autism.

This podcast is for parents like you. Navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you.

Transcript:

Samantha Foote: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Every Brain is Different Podcast. We're here with Scotti Weintraub, and she is the founder of Reframe Parenting, is a school navigator, problem-solver, educator, resource sharer, and forged-in-the-fire parent advocate. She knows exactly how hard it is to support a child who's struggling at school. Parenting her own two teens has taught her about [00:01:00] unexpected things like anxiety, ADHD, and learning disabilities, and the exhausting process of advocating with schools. She launched Reframe Parenting to share her hard-won successes and strategies to save other parents time and heartache.

Welcome to the show, Scotti. We're so excited to have you.

Scotti Weintraub: Thanks so much for having me.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you're involved in the neurodivergent community?

Scotti Weintraub: Yeah. Well, I support parents to help them find roadmaps to school success for their kids, especially when school is not going well. So, in that capacity, I run into a lot of neurodivergent families, and sometimes they don't even quite know yet that their child is neurodivergent.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Yeah. And so I've noticed that a lot with kids who they're not diagnosed, and then they go to school, and they struggle in school, and their parents are like, "What is going on?"

Scotti Weintraub: Yep.

Samantha Foote: [00:02:00] And that's when they get diagnosed because, or especially if they're, like, the oldest kid and their parents don't really know what's typical of development or anything like that, and then they get to school and they're like, "Oh, my child is different than other kids. Like, maybe we should look at this," and then they don't know what to do. So I'm glad that you are here to help them.

Scotti Weintraub: Oh, thank you.

Samantha Foote: So, and then I've also noticed, have you seen this? I have seen twins, different sets of twins, and then one twin is more developmentally delayed than the other one, so they think that the first twin is fine or, like, typically developing, and then they get to school and they're like, "Oh, they, they are having a hard time, too. It's just not as hard of a time as their brother or their sister."

Scotti Weintraub: Yeah. Right. Well, sometimes not even just with twins, but with siblings, it can be hard to gauge, like, what [00:03:00] is n- neurotypical, what is not neurotypical, and- I also find that as you go through school, as the academics start getting more intense in the upper elementary grades is when things can start really going sideways, and that's when, you know, if a, a student has found, like, workarounds and ways to manage in the early grades, sometimes those things can also just start appearing as academics get harder.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, for sure. It's like how all, like, the millennial women, I feel like right now, that are getting diagnosed with ADHD, myself included, we have had our coping skills our whole life, and then something happens and those coping skills go out the window and we're like, "What do we do now?" And so I feel like everyone's getting diagnosed with ADHD. Not everyone, but people are getting diagnosed in their AD- in their 30s because all their coping skills that they've built up their whole life just went out the window. And so that's how [00:04:00] kids can be in school, where they think-

Scotti Weintraub: Yes.

Samantha Foote: ... they're doing fine, and then all of a sudden something changes or there's a new expectation on them, and then all of a sudden their coping skills are not what they need to be, and so that's when they need help.

Scotti Weintraub: Yes, absolutely

Samantha Foote: So what can parents do if their child is struggling in school? What do you recommend that they do?

Scotti Weintraub: Well, the first thing I recommend is to start paying attention. And it can sometimes look like you're starting to get those emails or those phone calls that something's gone wrong at school or there's a problem, and sometimes you can get that kind of feedback that tells you like, "Oh, I do need to pay attention to this." But sometimes it's just like listening to your gut. If something doesn't feel like it's going as well as it should be, something feels harder for my child than it should be, but just really starting to pay attention. And that doesn't mean you need to know exactly what to do, 'cause it can feel like very much [00:05:00] frustrating and just combobulating to not know, "I don't know what to do with this information." It's okay not to know, but paying attention is the first step.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub: And not, the opposite of that is just putting your head down and pretending it doesn't exist, and that's not gonna do anybody any favors.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, for sure. I would also add to that, that if your child is coming home every day after school and having a meltdown when they get home, that's not a reflection on your parenting. That's probably because they're having a hard time in school, and then they finally get home to a safe place, and that's when they can let everything out. I think it's funny, when my sister used to come home and she would have a meltdown every day after school. She'd just be really grumpy. And my mom said, "What is your problem?" And she's, "I can be grumpy at school, or I can be grumpy at home. What do you want from me? Because I have to put up with people all day long. What do you want from me? I can't [00:06:00] hold it together all day long." And so-

Scotti Weintraub: Oh. Well, I'm so glad she had the, the wherewithal to know, like that was what was happening for her. But I think a lot of kids, they just, they don't understand it.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah.

Scotti Weintraub: Right? They've been holding it in, but not in a conscious way necessarily, and then it just all goes sideways when you get home. And I think you're right that, pointing out that piece, that it's not about the parents, it's not about your parenting, it's, it's just that they, they've run to the end of their patience and ability to cope.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah. It's like in episode 95, we talked about sensory processing. And if a kid has all their sensory stimuli coming in all day long, and then they're overwhelmed by it, and they've been masking and holding it together, it is- not a reflection on your parenting if they come home and they have a meltdown. Because-

Scotti Weintraub: Yes. Well, I will go-

Samantha Foote: Yeah ...

Scotti Weintraub: one step further and say your child's [00:07:00] struggles at school are also not a reflection of your parenting.

Samantha Foote: Oh, for sure. Yes.

Scotti Weintraub: Yes. But this one's hard for people. It's hard, especially if you happen to have been a good student or had an easy time in school, it can be really hard to not see that as a reflection of something that you have done or haven't done, and that somehow, I think also a lot of cultural pressure around school and grades, and people like to, to be proud of their kids, which is amazing- But to assume then that the, the opposite of that, that when the kid is struggling in school is a reflection on you, is just so hard for people.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. I struggled with that when my son was in first grade. He had such a hard year that year because he was going through some medical issues that we didn't know about, and it just came out at school that he, you know, he wouldn't listen, he wouldn't do what he was [00:08:00] asked, he would cause disruptions. And I was like, well, they think it's bad parenting. The teacher has to think that it's because of my parenting, and it wasn't because of my parenting, it's because he was having migraines every day. No wonder why he was acting out, because he didn't feel good. And so- that is so hard, though, 'cause that whole year until we figured out what was going on, I was like, they think that I'm a terrible parent. They think that I don't parent my child appropriately, that I'm, like, an absent parent or whatever. But then I even said, my other son got that teacher, like, two years later, and he was a perfect angel, and I said, "At least they know it's not my parenting." And that probably wasn't fair to my oldest, but I did say that.

But yeah, I totally understand about that, 'cause it is hard to feel judged when your kid is acting out for one reason or another at school.

Scotti Weintraub: Yeah, and if you... I [00:09:00] don't recommend reading online comments about these kinds of situations because they always go to that place of the parent needs to pay more attention, or needs to be a better parent, or punish, or insert the, the piece. When what we're really not paying attention to is what is behind the behavior. And your example is so beautiful, that when you figured out what the real problem was, then you could solve that. You could work on that. But just, like, punishing the, the meltdowns or the, the lack of ability to focus in school or whatever it was isn't gonna get you to really understanding the problem.

Samantha Foote: Yes, yes. Like we always say on this show, all behavior is communication.

Scotti Weintraub: Mm-hmm.

Samantha Foote: So if your child is acting one way and they, you don't want them to act that way, look at the communication that they are giving to you. That's what we... Yeah, that's just what we always say.

[00:10:00] So if- You are paying attention, and let's say you do have a meeting with the school. How, what do you recommend to parents going into a meeting with the school? Like, how do you advocate for yourself? How do you advocate for your kid and their needs?

Scotti Weintraub: Okay, well, a couple of tips about even just going into a meeting.

Samantha Foote: Mm-hmm.

Scotti Weintraub: One is that gather as much information as you can. And you might not know, and that's okay. But if you can gather that information, you're going into the meeting in a stronger position, right? So if, for instance, that your kid is falling apart every day after school, that's a, a great data point. That's just information to know. If you know that something's going on at home, there's been a major, a, a major change in your home life or anything that's valuable information that you can bring to the meeting, write down some things that you wanna make sure that you make note of to the teacher, [00:11:00] 'cause having that information going into the meeting is always useful.

The other piece about preparing is to lead with curiosity. So your goal in a school meeting is not to get your way. It is to work collaboratively with the teacher to come up with a solution. So we lead with curiosity, meaning that we ask questions and assume good intent. So we can just, we wanna go into those meetings assuming that the teacher is there for the exact same reason we are, which is to help find the tools and resources and strategies to help this child succeed. So we're just gonna assume that, and I think that sort of takes some of the pressure off, 'cause I know some parents, it's easy when you're talking about your kid, which is so emotional for us. It's not emotional for the teacher generally because they're coming at it in a professional way. You're coming at it in a personal way, and sometimes that power differential can make it [00:12:00] hard. But if we're assuming that they're there for the same reason as we are, then we can take off that, that cloak of anger or frustration and not lead with that, because no one wants to be in a collaborative relationship with someone who comes in really hot

Samantha Foote: Yes. Yes.

Scotti Weintraub: Right? No matter what the setting, if you come in making demands, assuming that they are not there for good reasons, then that doesn't feel like you're building a relationship. And really, the ultimate goal, that one meeting might not get you as far as you want it to, but it's just one step, and you have a relationship with this teacher, these administrators, or whoever it is, um, for a longer term, whether that's one school year or mul- multiple school years. The goal is to build a solid relationship so you can work together.

Samantha Foote: Yes. I love that. That's gonna be a quote on our Instagram this week.

Scotti Weintraub: [00:13:00] Yeah, good.

Samantha Foote: "Build a solid relationship so you can work together." Because if your kid's in kindergarten, and they're gonna be in the same school till fifth grade, that's a lot of years that you have to work with that administration. So be collaborative.

Scotti Weintraub: Yes! And be collaborative as much as you can, not just for the sake of the, the child, because they're the ones who have to be in the school setting, right? But also for your sake. And it's so much easier to work with people and have them be open to trying things when they feel supported and they feel like you're there to be collaborative instead of combative or confrontational. And I talk with parents a lot who they don't wanna be seen as that parent.

Samantha Foote: Mm-hmm.

Scotti Weintraub: There's a lot of fear around being labeled as the difficult, the pushy, the one who's making unreasonable demands. But one way to, to assure that you're not those [00:14:00] things is to lead with that curiosity. So you're just asking questions, right? “What are you, what are you seeing in the classroom? Here's what I'm seeing at home. What are you seeing?” That builds, that builds connection. That allows them to also give input and feedback, and also invites them to listen to what you have to say if you listen to what they have to say.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah. I remember a meeting that I had last year for my son and he was having a hard time with his teacher. They just did not have matching... Like, they just didn't get along, and it was no one's fault. They're just, like different temperaments and whatever. And the teacher tried so hard. And she said, "What can I do? Like, what, what have you seen that works at home?" And so she was very open to doing, like, pathological demand avoidance training, like understanding what PDA is. [00:15:00] She actually took the, it's like a workshop that PDA North America does, and then she said, "What works at home?" And sh- And I said, "This is what works at home. Do you think it would work in this school?" And so we were very collaborative. “What works for you? Here's what I'm seeing that works. Here's what I'm seeing that works.” And just trying to find something that would help my son, like, thrive at school, and I really appreciated that. But I didn't come in being like, "You're gonna do this, and you're gonna do this, and you're gonna do this. I came in and said, "What is working? What is not working? This is what I'm seeing at home. Do you think you could do that here?"

Scotti Weintraub: Yes.

Samantha Foote: And just being very curious, very collaborative.

Scotti Weintraub: Yes. That's a perfect example, because when you approach it that way, the, the teacher is more willing to, to think of new strategies, to, to learn more, to, to be inquisitive about, okay, what can we do? If we don't know what that is right [00:16:00] now, that's okay, but we can try some things. We can seek out more resources. That's an ideal situation for a teacher to be willing and open to learning what they don't know, because it's also true that teachers don't, for the most part, get training on things like neurodiversity and what that, how that shows up in the classroom, or learning disabilities or any of these things. And so unless they've sought it out or, or had experiences like you're describing where they, a, a parent brought them resources- And they just don't know. And so that's part of that assuming good intent is, is also assuming that the lack of knowledge isn't for not wanting to know.

Samantha Foote: Yes, exactly.

Scotti Weintraub: That they too want to serve the needs of their students, and so sometimes that means that parents, we've got to bring the resources if we know about them.And so that's what I'm talking about, like paying attention and doing our own [00:17:00] research and information gathering because then it allows us to come to a teacher and say, "Hey, if you don't know that much about PDA, for instance, you know, this concept, would you be willing to learn more about it? Because I think that that might be really helpful."

Samantha Foote: Yeah. I love it when teachers are like, "Help me understand." But what do you do when a teacher says, "I know what's best. I will win the power struggle. Your child will do what I say"? Do you just find a new teacher, or how do you work with someone like that?

Scotti Weintraub: Well, this is tricky, and I... Also reminds me of a teacher that I, uh, my son had a number of years ago, who when things were not going well, she kept saying to me, "Something needs to change." And when I presented information, would say, "I am an experienced teacher, I know what I'm doing." But then on the same hand was saying to me that something needed to change and they didn't know what to do. So it [00:18:00] can be really hard. I think there, it's continuing to have the conversations, and as much as that might be frustrating, it is also our job to just keep showing up and keep having conversations. And if we need to, sometimes it can be useful to bring in other people into the conversation so that then it's not always just about, it's not just a parent opinion, right? It's not just that I think my child needs special treatment. That's where if you have the information, if for instance, that they have ADHD, then we can bring in, sometimes the school counselor might have more information, and then we're talking about a peer-to-peer conversation, which is sometimes much easier for teachers to feel less threatened by, to have a conversation with one of their peers instead of feeling like it's coming just from a parent. I have brought in last year's teacher who seemed to have really good strategies. What can we learn from the experience that they [00:19:00] had last year? How can that be also useful? How can we bring in other voices? So to take some of that pressure off of just it being just the parent and the teacher can also be sometimes helpful.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, for sure. And even bringing in, like, I've gone to IEP meetings with some of my clients just to have another professional come in and say, "Hey, this is what I'm seeing, in music therapy or behavioral therapy, or my kid's occupational therapist actually offered to go into a meeting to talk about what she's seeing in occupational therapy and what works for her, how to get the kids to do what they need to do.”

And so, yeah, I think that is a great suggestion, just bringing in other people. I know when we have our IEP meetings, there is the counselor's there, the principal or vice principal. Sometimes the psych- school psychologist is there, if there's any occupational therapists or speech therapists that are working with my kids. And I love [00:20:00] that all those people are there so they can all give their different views of what my son is doing- In their, with them.

Scotti Weintraub: Mm-hmm.

Samantha Foote: And so, yeah, and it does, you're right, it is easier for teachers to talk to a peer than just maybe having a parent go in there being like, "You're not doing this, and you're not doing this, and you need to do this," and then they just dismiss the parent as being, I don't wanna say crazy, but kind of, you know.

Scotti Weintraub: Pushy or demanding-

Samantha Foote: Pushy ...

Scotti Weintraub: or anything, that parent.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that parent. Parent. And it's easy to do that if the parent comes in and just flies off the handle and ... So yes, that is awesome. Thank you for those suggestions. I love them. They are so good.

And the next question that we have is do you have any resources that either you make or that you would recommend for parents?

Scotti Weintraub: Well, [00:21:00] with regards to what I do, I do have some resources on my website. I have, which is just reframedparenting.com. I have a blog which has lots of, I think, pretty useful information there. I also, with regards to, like, bringing together all of these outside folks, I have a, a short workshop that you can find on my website that is about building your school support dream team, that is about who, identifying who are those outside players and inside players, and how do we bring them together for that, the benefit of finding the solutions, the strategies that really work best for your child. So, I have some things like that on my website.

In terms of outside resources, I think just really getting to know the needs of your child is your best step. The more you can both reflect, talk to last year's teachers, talk to your private practitioners about what are the strategies that you feel like would be the best fit for my unique child, because it's also [00:22:00] true that every kid with ADHD, for instance, doesn't need the same strategy.

Every child with autism doesn't need the same strategy. It really is about how does your unique child's brain work? How does that unique, uniquely, how do they uniquely need different strategies? And so once we know kind of what some of those are, even if that's, like, trial and error, that's fine. We don't have to be, like, it's not a, a forever thing, but what are some things that we can try that meet their unique needs? And I love that your podcast is Every Brain Is Different, because that's really true. And so the more you know as a parent about how your unique kid's brain works, that's only gonna benefit you moving forward.

Samantha Foote: Yes, absolutely. I completely agree. Even, like, kids that come from the same family, like, I have two kids on IEPs, and they have completely different supports, and they have the same exact diagnoses, and they come from the same household. [00:23:00] But they have completely different needs and all of that.

So you said that you can, people can find you at reframedparenting.com. Is there anywhere else that you wanna send people, or is that just the go-to place?

Scotti Weintraub: Well, it's a go-to place. You can also find me on Instagram @ reframedparenting. But yeah, check out my blog. I also have a, a quiz there that's kind of fun, which is kind of helping you identify what your parent support superpowers already are, and it's Golden Girls themed, which is kind of fun, so- What are your innate things that you are a- already doing, and then a few things that you could work on to try to be an even better advocate for your kid.

Samantha Foote: Awesome. And you were a panelist at the Neurodiversity and Harmony summit in March of this year. So if people want to catch that, they can go to everybrainisdifferent.com and click on the summit tab, and they can still view your, your training and all the [00:24:00] other panelists' training. So go to everybrainisdifferent.com to get even more awesomeness from you.

Scotti Weintraub: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: And our last question is, what do you do for fun?

Scotti Weintraub: Oh, what do I do for fun? Well, I live in the Pacific Northwest, where it's finally starting to get sunny, and I'm looking outside because it is happen to be sunny today. So I, this time of year, I'm all about my garden.

Samantha Foote: I love it.

Scotti Weintraub: And I find weeding actually kind of therapeutic.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub: I can put on a podcast, just zone out, and enjoy being outside, so that's what you can find me doing this time of year.

Samantha Foote: That is fantastic. I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We really appreciate your time and appreciate everything you shared, and yeah. Thank you.

Scotti Weintraub: Well, thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Samantha Foote: Well, Lauren, what did you think? What were the highlights?

Lauren Ross: I think that was a great conversation, but a really important one. I love her advice of, one, pay attention, really important. That's how we build curiosity and find information and all of that.

And then sharing that information with everyone that works with your kid, not just teachers. We always say we [00:26:00] don't know what we don't know. The teachers don't know what they don't know. And so having, sharing that information, sharing resources. You mentioned sharing the, the PDA workshops and stuff like that. I, I think that's great if you have stuff.

And then that collaboration is so important. You're not gonna get anything done if you get, can't collaborate. Like, it's always gonna be, like, an us versus them. And again, for the parent, it's more personal for them, it's professional, and you have to have that collaboration. But I also want to say to remember, especially if they're able, to don't forget to collaborate with your kid and let them be a part of the conversation. Because sometimes we're, we're making choices, and sometimes we think we know best and we don't ask, and so make sure we're, we're doing that in the mix of all these things or when we're prepping for these IEP meetings and, and stuff like that.

And then I really love getting other professionals involved. If you can get the, the speech therapist or [00:27:00] whoever is working with your kids in that meeting as well, or to write a letter or something. I don't know. I think the more info, the more collaboration, the more perspectives from ... The teacher's working on different things than what you might be as a parent, versus the speech therapist is working on speech and, and things like that. And so it's different environments, different reactions. And so that collaboration of everyone coming together is always gonna be better, in my opinion. And so I really love that.

And then the other thing you guys kind of touched on in the beginning is these struggles are not a reflection of you guys as parents. And I think, uh, it's a, a, a good reminder they're your kid, they're not you, and to kind of remember that. So if you did well or- Whatever, you had different struggles or stuff, like you're not the same people completely, and to, to remember that as well, and to, again, give yourself grace.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. [00:28:00] That is such a good insight, to remember that your kid is not you.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: And I struggle with that because I don't understand why my kids struggle in school, because I never did, and so I just don't get it. But then I have to support them and be empathetic and be like, okay. I said something to my son, this was a while ago, but he interpreted it as he wasn't trying in school. And I felt so bad because he tries so hard.

Lauren Ross: Mm-hmm.

Samantha Foote: And I said, I think I said something about, like, he, his test scores had just come back and I said, "Okay, we just need to keep working. We need to keep working to get you up to grade level." And he was just like, "I am working. I try my best, and just because the test says I'm not at grade level," he was like, "I am still trying." And I was like, [00:29:00] "I did not mean that you were not trying." He just wanted to know why he had to read. And I said, "We have to practice reading-" So we can get you to where you need to be. And he's like, "I'm trying, and I..." And just went off. Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, I totally understand why you would say that and why you would think that based on what I said." And so I just have to be very careful about what I say because my kids interpret things so much differently than how I mean to say them.

Lauren Ross: Oh, absolutely.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. So just something to think about, and I love what you said about collaborating with your kid. Just asking. You don't have to have a long, drawn out conversation. Last year before the IEP meetings, I would go to my son and just say, "Hey, what do you think would help you in school?"

Lauren ROss: Yeah, exactly.

Samantha Foote: “What do you think would help you? What do you need?" And he actually told me things. And so the first time, he didn't tell me anything, [00:30:00] but after that, he's, "Well, it would help if this happened," or, "It'd help if this happened." And some of the things, they're never gonna happen. Like, they're just not feasible at school. But then other things, yeah, other things we put into place, and they did help him. And I'm like, "Oh, well thank you for telling me." And he's, 'cause you don't, we don't know what we don't know. I don't know what's going on in his brain.

Lauren ROss: Exactly. Well, and when you're asking and you're letting them be a part of that conversation, you're teaching them to advocate for themselves, and-

Samantha Foote: Yeah ...

Lauren ROss: at the end of the day, that's really important for when they become older, and adults, and more independent, and you're not always going to be there in certain circumstances. And so letting them be a part of those conversations and letting them speak up with what they need or prefer or what they think is, is always important, so.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Yeah. I have a friend whose child is going to college, and she said, "I don't know if he's ready. I don't know." He has, he's neurodivergent, and she's, [00:31:00] "I don't know if he's ready." And so she is getting him help, the help that he needs, but it's important to teach our kids to advocate for themselves in- When they're in our homes and going to school so that if they go to college or when they go to college, they can go to their professor or they can go to the disability resource center or student services or something and say, "Hey, I need these accommodations. How do I get them? Is this possible?" Because you're not gonna be around all the time in college.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: And they're still gonna need help. They might still need help. So anyway, that's my thoughts on that.

Lauren ROss: Love it.

Samantha Foote: So thank you all for listening this week.

Once again, if you want to catch Scotti at our Neurodiversity in Harmony Summit, the replays are available at everybrainisdifferent.com. And yeah, you can get those, and I hope you all have a great [00:32:00] week.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. We hope this discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with support, understanding and inspiration. If you're looking for more support, Or you can go to everybrainisdifferent.com and download the ultimate guide to parenting your neurodivergent child.