129- How to Reduce Mealtime Battles with Neurodivergent Kids

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Welcome to Every Brain is Different, the podcast where we celebrate the unique world of neurodiversity. We are your hosts, Samantha Foote, a neurodivergent, Board Certified Music Therapist and mom to three kids of ADHD and autism. And Lauren Ross, an ally to the neurodivergent community with over 10 years of experience supporting children and adults with autism.

This podcast is for parents like you. Navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you.

Transcript:

Samantha Foote: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Every Brain is Different podcast. It is Samantha and Lauren with you here today, and today we are going to talk about feeding therapy. So if your child has, like, food aversions and they don't eat a lot of different foods, which is super common in kids with [00:01:00] autism, yeah, and-

Lauren Ross: I hate when I see people are like, "That's not a real thing. You just need to shove it in their mouth. They'll get used to it." No, don't do that.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Lauren Ross: It's a real thing.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. I don't remember who said it to me, but my son would not eat what was on the table, and they were like, "Just make him eat it. He won't starve himself to death." Yes, he will. We did not have what he wanted to eat once, and he was set on eating that, and we were, like, up in the mountains, so it wasn't like I could just go to the store and get it for him. He starved himself for almost 24 hours, and then I finally was like, "I..." And then we found something that he would eat, but I was about ready to pack up and, like, go to the store to get him something to eat because I'm like, "Surely he's not gonna starve himself to death," 'cause we had plenty of food.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: And he told me, he was like, "I would rather die than eat anything you have here for me to eat." And I was like- Okay. And then [00:02:00] my other son was so concerned that I was gonna let him die. He was like, "You're not gonna let him die, are you?"

Lauren Ross: Of course.

Samantha Foote: And I was like, "No, I'm not gonna let him die, like I'm going to get him food." But it was like that night at dinner, and it was late, and he was like, "I'm not eating that." And I said, "Okay. Well, let's eat this, let's eat this, let's eat this." He said, "No, I'm not eating any of that. I don't want any of that." And I was like, "Okay. Surely he'll eat in the morning." And no, it was almost 24 hours, and then we like- It was because he was going through this like survivalist phase where he had to find what he was going to eat out in the wilderness, and he wouldn't eat anything unless he found it out in the wilderness. And then my husband hid some food out in the woods for him to find to eat. And that's how he finally ate.

Lauren Ross: I love it. Creative solution.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause my sister asked him, she [00:03:00] was like, "If you found something in the woods, even if it was like wrapped, you know, like a granola bar or something, would you eat it?" He's like, "Yeah, 'cause I found it in the woods."

Lauren Ross: That's all, that was gonna be my question, is like was it like wrapped food, or did you like make a-

Samantha Foote: It was a hamburger. He found a hamburger and a potato, and he said that he would eat it because they cooked it over the fire. And I was like, "Okay." But yeah, he starved himself. He was not eating. And so if people say they're not gonna starve themselves, yes they will. Yes, they will. So if you need that validation in your life today, there you go, someone that understands.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: So yeah, when my kids were younger, they still do not eat a lot of things, obviously, what we just talked about, but they are much better about trying things, and that's all I care about. I just want [00:04:00] them to try new foods, because sometimes, like last night we had dinner, I was shocked. My son was like, "Dad, did you cook this dinner?" And my husband said, "Yes." And he's like, "This is delicious." And I was like “What, what did you just say? Like, dinner, dinner is delicious?” And it was a new dinner. We don't have it very often. I think we've had it before, but he just didn't remember that we had it, you know? And he was like, "This is delicious. I really like the carrots." And I was like, "What did you just say?" But when they were younger, they wouldn't have even tried it if it was something new.

And so today we're gonna be talking about what to do if your kids won't even try foods, if they have a very limited diet, and some steps that you can take to help them with that.

The first thing that I recommend is seeing a feeding therapist. And feed, food therapy can be done by an occupational therapist or a speech therapist. I think my kid went to... I only had one kid [00:05:00] go through feeding therapy. But we went to the office, and we had to bring a food that he liked and a food that he didn't like, and she would work with that. And she would work with him to get used to the food that he didn't like. And she said the most important thing you can do is play with the food. Don't make them eat it. Just play with it. Just get used to it. Just let them touch it and feel it and smell it and all that stuff. And if they eat it, then that's great. That's perfect. That's what we want. But if they don't, don't force them to do it. Because if you force them to do it, then they're just gonna be less likely to do anything. So, how she broke it down was when we're at home, just to do, what's that therapy I did for OCD?

Lauren Ross: Exposure therapy.

Samantha Foote: Exposure therapy. Yes. Yes. She kind of said basically to do exposure therapy. [00:06:00] So the first thing, my kids wouldn't even tolerate having the food on the table if they didn't like it. And so, the first step was to have the food in their vicinity, whether it was on the table, on the counter. So we had it on the counter to start with, and then we moved it to the table, and we just had it on the table where they could see it. If they wanted it on their plate, then they could ask for it to be put on their plate, and we put it on their plate. If they wanted to eat it, that was great. But we just got them used to the idea of having the food around them. And then we put it next to their plate. So we didn't put it on their plate. If we put food on their plate that they didn't wanna eat, they would take it off and just throw it away or put it on- They usually put it on my plate, and I'm like, "What are you doing? Like, I, I already have this food on my plate. I don't want..." They're like, "I don't want it on my plate. I don't want it by my other food." And so, we just put it next to their plate. So we'd put it on a [00:07:00] paper towel, or we put it on another plate, just a little bit closer to them. And then once they were okay with that, we moved to putting it on their plate. Definitely not touching their other food, but just on their plate. They didn't have to touch it, they didn't have to eat it, they didn't have to smell it. I guess you have to smell it. I never think about smell because I can't smell. But it's just on their plate. And then we went to touching it, where we just asked them just to touch it, just to see what it feels like, you know, you can handle it. Like I said before, the feeding therapist said the most important thing you can do is let kids play with their food. And so, if they wanted to play with it, we let them play with it. And it was so hard for me to let them play with their food, because I grew up, as most people-

Lauren Ross: Like, don't play with your food

Samantha Foote: ... like, don't play with your food. Just eat your food. Like, that's disgusting. Don't play with it. We let them take it off their plate, and like, they would build towers or mountains out of mashed [00:08:00] potatoes, or they would put things on their fingers. And the whole time like, I am very sensory avoidant when it comes to messes or messy things on my hands, and I was, like, gagging the whole time that my kids were playing with their food. Because it was just so, like, I could imagine it being on my fingers, and I probably need occupational therapy for this, but I don't care. I'm old, and I, it's how I am. So I let them do it, but it was, oh, it was so hard for me.

Lauren Ross: I bet.

Samantha Foote: I was like, "Ugh, don't do that. Don't do that." But they got used to the food.

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And then after they touched it, we said, "Okay, we want you to lick it." And they would lick their food. They only had to lick it once, and then we'd ask them to take a nibble. I don't know what the big difference between a nibble or a bite is, but if we told them they just had to take a nibble, then they would take, they would taste it. But if we said they had to take a bite, they would fight us to the bitter end.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: And so we just said, "You have to take nibbles." And then once they took a nibble, we would be like, "Okay, you have to take this many nibbles." And it was just based on their [00:10:00] age. So if they were four years old, they had to take four nibbles.

And they're older now, and so we don't have to do that. They just take a bite, and if they like it, then they eat it, and if they don't like it, then they don't like it. And if they really, really don't wanna try something now, I don't make them try it. That's once again, like, it's called ascent-based therapy, and all that means is that they have a choice. They have a choice in what they're doing. They show you when they're ready to move forward. If they really don't wanna do something, we're not gonna work on it right now. We're gonna continue working on it, but maybe I'm not gonna force them to do it right now. And that was a super important component to the process that we did, was if they were not tolerating the food being on their plate, I'm not gonna make them touch it.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: So we would backtrack. If we put it on their plate and they just were not okay with that, then we went back to putting it next to their plate.

Lauren Ross: [00:11:00] Go back a step and try again later.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so we would just do that, and just move forward based on their timeline. And I don't know about you, Lauren, but when I'm waiting for someone and I'm ready to move forward, it is very hard for me. I am not a patient person. And this process took months.

Lauren Ross: I was gonna say, this is, you gotta, this is one of those processes where it's a long haul.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Lauren Ross: But, you know, you put in the effort in the beginning it’s gonna be- Like what you say now, like they're willing to take a bite for the most part.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, for the most part. I mean, if they're overstimulated, they've had a hard day, and then you ask them to take a bite of food that they don't, that they don't know what it tastes like and it's a new food, they're not gonna do it.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: But that's understandable. Their ar- their system is already overloaded. So why am I gonna make them take a bite of new food? It's like when we go to dinners at other people's [00:12:00] houses, I don't make them try new food. I just say, "Take what you want, eat that. We're not gonna worry about trying new foods." If they're already overstimulated, if they're already dysregulated, I'm not gonna further-

Lauren Ross: The worst thing you could do

Samantha Foote: ... make that worse. Yeah. Yeah, the worst thing you c- 'cause then you're gonna have a meltdown, and then there's gonna be people judging you. There's gonna be people judging them. You're gonna feel like you have to show who's boss, you know?

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: And there's no need for that. And so people still judge me, but I don't care anymore. They'll be like, "Are you sure?" You know, we've talked about this before. They'll be like, "Are you sure your kid should only eat that?" And I'm like, "It's one meal." Yeah. It's not-

Lauren Ross: For right now, yeah.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. It's not their whole nutritional diet. Like it's one meal. They're gonna survive by just eating rolls today.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: So rolls and meat. That's been, that's my kids' love language. Rolls and meat.

Lauren Ross: Well, there's [00:13:00] protein. That's all that matters.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Yeah. Which, do you know how much protein you're supposed to eat per day? Holy smokes.

Lauren Ross: Three ounces.

Samantha Foote: Three ounces. No. But I- Yeah. It, like, I'm supposed to eat, like, 100 ounces or milligrams, I don't know what it is, of protein. Milligrams, I think. Of protein per day, and I'm like, "That's a lot for me."But anyway, off topic.

But yeah, if you, like, I know people judge me for what I send my kid to school with for lunch, 'cause I let him pick his own lunch, and he takes jerky and Cheerios, and I don't care. I don't care. He eats... Oh, and Kool-Aid. I think we talked about this recently.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: But yeah, yeah. But, um, I don't care. It's one meal, and [00:14:00] he's gonna come home, and he'll eat carrots like he did last night. But at school, he's super stressed, so I'm gonna send him with whatever can make him feel calm and happy while he's at school. And I'm not gonna worry about it. But my mom works at the school, and she's like, "Yeah, the school is totally judging you." And I'm like-

Lauren Ross: Well. ...

Samantha Foote: “Then they judge me. I don't care."

Lauren Ross: Yeah. They're not raising him, so mind your business.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I wanted to touch quickly on, there is something called ARFID, which I don't know a lot about it, but it's like an extreme dislike for new food, and it's very anxiety inducing. And so if your kid has that, we will do a future episode about that, but just know that sometimes it's more than just not liking food. Like, it's an anxiety inducing-

Lauren Ross: It's a whole different-

Samantha Foote: Yeah, it's a whole different thing. So we will do an episode about ARFID probably next week, but [00:15:00] as like a continuation of this, but just know that there are things that are more in depth, I guess. Like-

Lauren Ross: Yeah ...

Samantha Foote: they're not just doing it... Once again, your kid is not refusing food to make you mad.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: They are refusing food because of anxiety. Like, they just can't do it. And I don't know what it is about chicken nuggets or what is in chicken nuggets, but it needs to be studied. Because kids with autism, for the most part, from what I've seen, most kids with autism, like chicken nuggets are their preferred food, and I don't get it, but.

Lauren Ross: I wanna know, like at what point it's like introduced to most kids.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Lauren Ross: And then I, I feel like it's like the go-to, and so I think it's just one of the first things we give little kids.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Lauren Ross: And then it's so consistent for the most part. I think that's a part of it, but also, like- [00:16:00] There's gotta be more.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah.

We went on a vacation, and I was so proud of my son because he did not have chicken nuggets that whole time we were on vacation until the last day, and I didn't even think about it. I didn't think about, that he eats chicken nuggets every day, and I had not given him chicken nuggets, like, for the four or five days that we were gone. And then we got to my friend's house, and she was serving pizza, and he hates pizza, but she had other food too that he could have eaten that he liked.

Lauren Ross: Mm-hmm.

Samantha Foote: But he was like, "I need chicken nuggets." And I said, "I don't-"

Lauren Ross: You don’t need them.

Samantha Foote: I was like, "I don't have chicken nuggets." And it was, once again, he was willing to starve before he ate anything other than chicken nuggets. And my friend, bless her soul, was like, "It's cool. I got you." And she cooked some chicken tenders for him, and the chicken tenders were close enough to chicken [00:17:00] nuggets that he ate them. But yeah, he was willing to starve because he was going through, like, chicken nugget withdrawal or something. And it was funny, but it was not funny. But yeah, so he was like, "I need chicken nuggets." And I kept saying, "No, you know, it's fine. We can eat this other food. We're going home tomorrow. I will get you chicken nuggets tomorrow." Because he didn't, he doesn't like chicken nuggets from fast food places. They have to be, like, the dino nuggets, and so it wasn't like I could just go to McDonald's and get him chicken nuggets you know? But yeah, I was like, "I'll get you chicken nuggets tomorrow. We'll be home, and you can have them every day after that." And he was like, "I need chicken nuggets right now." And luckily, the chicken tenders were good enough. But that's what I'm talking about. Like, kids will starve. They will starve themselves, and it's a serious thing.

And so I encourage you, if your kid has a small amount of food that they'll eat, like different foods, [00:18:00] maybe try this. Try, you know, you put it on the counter, and then you put the food that they don't like on the table, and then you put it next to their plate, and then you put it on their plate, and then they play with it, and then they touch it, and then they lick it, and then they bite it. Just try it. See how it happens. Or always consult with a professional. Consult with a feeding therapist. And, but I know that feeding therapists usually have long wait lists, and so you can always consult with them. You can, you know, have a consultation and just say, like, "What can I do to get started with my kid?" So I hope that was helpful, so.

Lauren Ross: Can I add one thing?

Samantha Foote: Of course.

Lauren Ross: I think sometimes, and I've heard that this has helped, is if it's possible, letting them be a part of the preparation of food and/or their meal, and they might be a little bit more open because they had a hand in preparing it.

Samantha Foote: Yes.

Lauren Ross: And cooking it, and I think, I think that's a huge thing to [00:19:00] also potentially try if you can. Um, because then they're a part of it and they have some control over it and things like that, and those things are important to kiddos, so.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. You can let them plan the meal with you. Go to the grocery store, or now, if you do grocery delivery, like let them get on the app with you and pick out the food.

Lauren Ross: Mm-hmm.

Samantha Foote: And then let them help you cook it and see how that helps. It's been shown to help, like you said, to if kids are a part of planning, then they're more likely to eat it. And yeah, that was a good suggestion. Thank you.

Lauren Ross: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: So yeah, let us know how it goes. Let us know if you have any questions, and we'll be back next week with an ARFID episode, so be looking for that.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. We hope this discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with support, understanding and inspiration. If you're looking for more support, Or you can go to everybrainisdifferent.com and download the ultimate guide to parenting your neurodivergent child.