102- Gail Ewell and How to Advocate for Your Autistic Child Without Burning Bridges

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Welcome to Every Brain is Different, the podcast where we celebrate the unique world of neurodiversity. We are your hosts, Samantha Foote, a neurodivergent, Board Certified Music Therapist and mom to three kids of ADHD and autism. And Lauren Ross, an ally to the neurodivergent community with over 10 years of experience supporting children and adults with autism.

This podcast is for parents like you. Navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you.

Transcript:

Samantha Foote: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Every Brain is Different podcast. We're here with Gail Ewell, and she is the founder and executive director of Hope Technology School, or HTS. And under her leadership, HTS has grown from a pilot program of five students in 2001, to an award-winning, fully accredited kindergarten through 12th grade school. It's also a licensed preschool and a vocational [00:01:00] education program called Life Skills Pathway. She is also a parent to three children, two of which have autism.

Welcome to the show, Gail. We're so excited to have you.

Gail Ewell: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. I'm excited because for my internship, I did a s- I did an internship at a school for kids with disabilities. Oh. And it sounds like it was a lot like the school that you have, and so I'm really excited to talk about this. I'm trying to do a school like this in Idaho, but-

Gail Ewell: Oh ...

Samantha Foote: it's a lot of work. So-

Gail Ewell: Yeah. It's a lot.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, it's a lot of work. But yeah, can you tell us a little bit more about how you're involved in the neurodivergent community?

Gail Ewell: Sure, yeah. Let's see. We started the school back in 2001 and we pretty much, from our own lives, saw the need for the advocacy and the inclusive education. I'm from the East Coast, we moved to the West Coast. And in my opinion, it wasn't at that time [00:02:00] as progressive as far as inclusive education. And so with a series of events, we just decided we'd start a school, and then from there we're at hundred-plus students now, and we have, 60% are neurodivergent, and then the other are neurotypical. But we have a wide range of special needs. It's not just students with autism spectrum disorder, but also Down syndrome and learning differences. So yeah.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. That sounds awesome. So how do you make the school inclusive and use all the resources? What resources do you have available for students, and how do you help the neurotypical kids be included with the neurodivergent kids and just everyone together?

Gail Ewell: Those are great questions. So yeah, we have a lot of, we've learned a lot of inclusive education strategies throughout the years, and it's always been a work in progress. We're always growing. But [00:03:00] pretty much we use a lot of differentiated instruction, which basically just tailors to the individual learning needs. We have a lot of collaborative learning opportunities where students can work together and learn from each other. We use technology to support diverse learners. And then we have project-based learning opportunities, which is great 'cause the kids are always working together. We also have a lot of sensory sensitivity awareness built into our program, and social skills curriculum built, embedded into the program. You know what? I mean, these are things we do breathing now, but a lot of us out there, we have to learn how to advocate and educate our schools on sensory awareness. So we provide a quiet area if they need a ball or rocking chair. We have special chairs sitting at their desk. I recently had a tour of a Korean delegation that came through our school, and the first thing they said is, "Why are those children sitting on balls?" They were very in shock about that. [00:04:00] And I said, "Well, we allow for movement." And we have noise reduction headphones available if they need them, movement breaks, and movement motor room classes, and yoga, and all kinds of things that just allow for sensory awareness, but also movement. We have an SLP assistant that does social groups. So a lot of these things that I've just shared are embedded into our program. And then, of course, there's the collaboration with the other students that allows for the integration that we're looking for, the inclusive education.

Our overall approach or framework, and I'm sure you guys have heard of this, is just universal design for learning, and that basically is a framework to ensure inclusive learning environment for students. So it focuses on multiple means of reputat- representation and expression and engagement, and it recognizes that students learn in a diverse way and aims to accommodate different learning styles and needs.

Samantha Foote: Yes. I love that, just accommodating all the different learning [00:05:00] styles. And for movement, I know that movement is a huge thing. Like we've said before, there was a study done that kids with ADHD, when they're allowed to move, they can perform better on their tests, on their studies. They don't have as many, like, behavioral outbursts, if you wanna call them that, when they just need to move. And so I really appreciate everything that you're doing in your school.

So what would you tell parents who are trying to maybe educate their public school or just the school that their kids go to? Like, where can they start for an inclusive environment if maybe they're not doing a great job of that right now? What can they advocate for?

Gail Ewell: Well, there's so many things you can advocate for.

I think you can start with their IEP and making sure that you have inclusion goals, right? And goals that fit your child's needs, specific needs. I mean, you could have inclusive sports goals, all kinds of things that, you know, 'cause as working with the school system, if it's not [00:06:00] in the IEP, sometimes it won't happen, right? Or even if it is, doesn't always happen. But those are- that's a s- a way you can start. If your child has an IEP, you can start by putting in some inclusion goals, and you can ask for specific approaches, whether it's visual aids or auditory resources or hands-on activities or digital tools. There are a lot of things that you can request that are very important to different learners

Samantha Foote: Yeah, I think it's important for parents to remember that they can request anything. And the worst the school can do is say no. But I've found, at least with my son's school, that if I request it, they're like, "Yes, we want the child to succeed. We want him to be successful. We want him to come to school and be happy." And so they're usually willing to do what you're ask- what you ask them to do.

Gail Ewell: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: But sometimes you have to advocate a little bit harder for it, 'cause I know not all schools are like that. I've heard [00:07:00] horror stories from, like, other parents. And so-

Gail Ewell: Yes ...

Samantha Foote: yeah, yeah.

Gail Ewell: Definitely. Oh, no, sorry. Did I interrupt?

Samantha Foote: Oh, no, you're fine. I'm just, how would you, what would you recommend to parents for advocating for their kids' needs? Like, how hard to push, or where can they find the resources to show that, hey, this is really needed and this is how it's worked in other schools, so maybe it could work in this school?

Gail Ewell: Yeah, I think what you said is really true. I think you can just, you ask. Don't being a... I was, I had to push myself socially with my children, especially when they were younger and I was learning how to educate and advocate and not just be discouraged, or be mad, or build… I didn't wanna... Someone gave me a tip on not building adversarial relationships early on with the staff, and understanding where they're coming from and their res- limited resources and what inclusion looks like. And so I had to stretch [00:08:00] myself socially. I was the introvert, my husband was the extrovert. And so I had to learn how to advocate and not be afraid to ask, and sometimes we are. It's hard to ask professionals that you feel like you don't... And they always have, in my opinion, this is probably my bad attitude from the past, but they always have their well-rehearsed answers, right? So you have to really, on top of the needs that you're trying to fulfill with your family, this extra support, et cetera, you're having to- Go back to school.

Samantha Foote: Yes. Yeah.

Gail Ewell: You're becoming a PhD. You're learning so many new things, and then on top of it, you're trying to develop these social advocacy skills to interface with these professionals, and it can be daunting and, and very challenging at times. I know for me, when I was early on, my one son has Down syndrome and autism, dual diagnosis, and he did not do well in special day class early on. The ear- he did the early intervention, [00:09:00] but then they put him in a special day class preschool, and, uh, he did not do well. The ... It was a mixed group, very big, very large, and lots of behavior, so he just freaked out. He was deer in the headlights all the time. So I just opted to go and include him in our neighborhood school, and what happened is the psychologist, I don't know if he felt threatened by it, I don't know what was going on there. He ... There were some weird one-on-one interactions where he said, "Look, I appreciate what you're doing, and we're gonna let your son come to our school." This is for kindergarten. And, "But I don't want you to advocate for him for other families to come. I don't want you to tell them what you did to get him fully included." And so at the time, I'm pretty overwhelmed mom, and I'm just, "Well, whatever. I'm trying to get my kid educated. I'm not here to start something."

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah.

Gail Ewell: I was just like, I don't know why he's, uh, telling me that. But I was able to put him in his neighborhood school, and he did so much better in [00:10:00] his neighborhood school with the proper supports, and then I had to interact with the teachers. And so one of the teachers, I ... They always put him in classrooms as the grades went up with the veteran teachers, which was great, but they didn't have the understanding of certain things, right? They're not special educators. I have compassion, right?

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Gail Ewell: So they see this kid coming in with Down syndrome and autism and kind of, “oh my gosh”. But what happened was I had to build a relationship, and I tried to volunteer. I tried to talk to the principal. I was trying to be at the same time squeaky wheel, but also be the encourager and build a relationship and not adversarial, and that really did go a long way, that tip and that advice, for my family at that time. And later on, of course, we started school, and then we pulled him out and put him in our school. Sorry, I went too long on that.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, no, that is wild that he was like, "We're gonna let you come, but don't tell anybody else that they can [00:11:00] come."

Gail Ewell: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: Wow. I don't like that. But I'm glad that you were able to advocate for your kid and get him the stuff that he needs. And I have found, too, when I'm talking with the school, the ... if I say, "I understand you're doing everything you can."

Gail Ewell: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: "Here's another idea. Here's another idea of something that might work." And just not ... Even though sometimes I'm like, "You're not doing anything and you're being ridiculous." But if I say, "I understand you're doing your best," then they're much more likely to take into account the other things that you suggest.

Gail Ewell: Really true. Yeah, I know with this one teacher, and this school actually, if, given that they didn't do a har- I think he might've been the first student who was a full included, but they did great as far as learning and growing and working with me. And the teach- one of the teachers did some inappropriate things regarding, just didn't know, and boy, I educated them. [00:12:00] And then they were so awesome after. They ... Actually, I invited them to his birthday party, and they came on out. So there were things like that that they grew with me, which was great. So it-

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Gail Ewell: it can, you can have things happen, but if you work together, it can get better.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, for sure. That is the key, just working together with your kid's team, like whoever's on the team. And I ev- I've even done, like, working together with their outside, their private, like, occupational therapist and speech therapist, and then I bring that into the school and say, "This is working really well in their private occupational therapy. Can we try that during school and see if it helps?" And so just including everyone, I think, is super important, and maintaining those positive relationships, not becoming adversarial, like you said.

Gail Ewell: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: Because then when you become adversarial, they're just gonna be like, "I'm done. You don't know what you're talking about, and you're ridiculous."

Gail Ewell: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: At least that's what I've seen.

Gail Ewell: I agree, [00:13:00] and I think not being afraid to suggest things that would work, 'cause you're becoming these expert moms and parents, and you can ... We always value at our school the sug- I mean, a lot of the great things come from the parents, so that's a really important thing to feel like you can make a difference. So I think that's great to do that.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Samantha Foote: Hey everyone, Samantha here, and I'm thrilled to invite you to join me for something special, the Parenting Power Hour. This is your chance, parents of neurodivergent kids, to bring your questions directly to me and fellow parents in the room. We're here to help you develop actionable plans that really work so you can finally stop the meltdowns and find peace in your home. As a mom to three kids with ADHD and autism, I've seen and been through the challenges too. So trust me, we'll find solutions together that fit your family. Don't miss out on the Parenting Power Hour. It's a free online monthly gathering every second Thursday of the month from twelve forty-five to one forty-five Mountain [00:14:00] Standard Time. Visit everybrainisdifferent.com to reserve your spot today.

Samantha Foote: Can you tell us some resources that you would recommend to parents? Maybe one or two, either ones that you provide or just ones that you would recommend?

Gail Ewell: Sure. Yeah. We provide, we, we like to focus on initiatives to foster friendships. And to me, my two things I try to think about a lot with children and adults with special needs is their communication and their friendships. 'Cause two. what, two to three times more likely to be bullied than their peers, and peers can stick up for other peers. So I think peer, pairing peers with projects ... Wow, PPP, I didn't know I did that. Pairing peers with projects, say that five times, helps students with neurodivergency and neurotypical peers to build friendships and mutual understanding with their peers.

We do project-based learning, where students learn together how to work together, and maybe peer modeling. Like, we have a coffee cart for our life skills pathway [00:15:00] program, and the high school students will support that and go along with the coffee cart and get the orders from the teachers and give out the snacks. And so they have a ... It's just teaching some life skills and vocational skills. But they, we pair them, and it allows the high school students to support and assist each other.

We do peer mentoring, where older students mentor younger students. And sometimes, so the older ones will come read to the little ones, and pr- promoting a sense of responsibility and companionship.

Group projects, colla- collaborative projects that require students just to work together and leverage each other's strengths.

We also have a lot of inclusive events, sports, field trips, and when we have our special events, whether it's Bike to Bay or our holiday celebration, everything's very inclusive. And so that helps a lot. That's just initiatives to foster friendship, 'cause I'm really big on that.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, and I think that's super important, 'cause a lot of kids, I've noticed, I think it's [00:16:00] a ... People don't understand that kids maybe with autism or other neurodivergent diagnoses, I've heard a lot of people say that they don't want friends, they don't want friendships, they don't wanna be included. I'm like, that is not true at all. It's just differences in communication, differences in how they learn, and I know, like, my daughter goes to preschool, and she's, "Oh, that's my friend. That's my friend. That's my friend." But then she doesn't talk to them at all. Because she doesn't know ... She gets so nervous, and she doesn't know what to say, but she wants to be their friend, but then she just doesn't know how. And so I love that you put kids together and help them work together. It's just like the real world. Like, when they go out into the workforce- they're going to be with other people and have to work together. So that, I love all the things that you just said. I think they're so important.

Gail Ewell: That's great, yeah. Social groups, extracurricular activities, stretching yourself and getting out of your comfort zone. I had to do that. That was so ... Part of me [00:17:00] was, uh, learning and growing socially as well to navigate- this maze, this wor- world together, right? That was hard. But examples, I think of inclusive social groups and sports teams, I think that's really important to figure out. I had one of my relatives email me about their daughter, and she was in the, I don't know if it was the band or the marching whatever it was, but it had- really long practices and super high expectations, and she was, had some ADHD and other needs. And so I said, "Why don't you put in the IEP some inclusion goals and make that the sports?" So that, because they were gonna, I think they were gonna have her, they were talking about maybe her not getting kicked out or not get, being able to participate, 'cause she couldn't keep up with just, it was pretty intense.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Gail Ewell: And so that was, but see, if you allow for inclusion, you're not g- you're gonna have some accommodations or modifications to these groups, but that does allow for friendships, right? It builds a sense of community, belonging [00:18:00] amongst the students, and you just gotta provide opportunities for students to develop those social skills and form relationships. And I think inclusive social groups are really important, h- whatever you're gonna call them. We have a CREATE summer enrichment program where we have art and cooking and coding and writing and all kinds of things, chess club or whatever.

The kids usually pick. But unified sports teams are important, I think. We have a basketball team, and they go, they, we're a part of a small LD, small s- heads of school group, and we, BASL League, and it's like a Bay Area small group for sports, and we're able to go to their schools and do their basketball games, or we host, we have a good path where we are, so we host cross country. And the amazing thing, I was talking to one of the moms that's daughter is on the basketball team, and every, it's boys, girls, special needs, everything. And she said, "It's so funny, 'cause it's a different kind of group of parents. We're all cheering for all the kids when they make the shot."

Samantha Foote: Yeah, yeah.

Gail Ewell: She goes, “even the other team.” It's great, 'cause [00:19:00] it's so great to see. And it's competitive. I mean, they have, it's not just, it's a competitive thing, but the parents are so happy about the inclusion, and they're supporting each other.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. That's fantastic. All those things are great ideas for inclusion, how to get your kid out there, how to have them be successful with other peers and-

Gail Ewell: Yeah

Samantha Foote: yes. Fantastic.

Can you tell us, where can people find you online if they're interested in learning more?

Gail Ewell: We're hotekschool.org, and you can, we have a ton of resources on there and links and things you can look at, access too, so.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Awesome. And then our last question is, what do you do for fun?

Gail Ewell: What do I do for fun?

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Gail Ewell: Wow, that's a really good question. Well, I like to walk my dog.

Samantha Foote: Nice.

Gail Ewell: I have a crazy dog. I like to walk my dog. That's very therapeutic for me. [00:20:00]

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Gail Ewell: I also like to bike when I can. Every other day or third day, I get out on my bike, and that actually clears my head and helps me exercise and do a little cardio. So, and then s- on occasion we'll go to the beach with our family, and that's really fun as well. So those are things I like to do for fun.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. I love it. That's awesome. I haven't ridden a bike in so long. Maybe I should go try and do that.

Gail Ewell: I know. I started during pandemic, yeah.

Samantha Foote: Oh, yeah.

Gail Ewell: Nice. I hadn't ridden a bike for... I thought, "Oh, no, can I get on the bike?" But it really helped me.

Samantha Foote: Oh good.

Gail Ewell: So now I'm, I'm still doing it. Yeah.

Samantha Foote: Good. Good. Yeah. Well, thank you.

Lauren Ross: Last time I got on, I fell.

Samantha Foote: Oh, no.

Gail Ewell: Oh, no. Oh, no. Don't do that.

Samantha Foote: It, it does happen.

Gail Ewell: I have actually, I have to confess, I have fallen a couple times, but I'm still on that bike. I'm getting back on that bike.

Samantha Foote: Nice. I love it. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. We truly appreciate your time and everything that you've shared with us.

Gail Ewell: Oh, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I really [00:21:00] appreciate it. It's great to meet you guys.

Samantha Foote: Yeah.

Lauren Ross: Thank you.

Samantha Foote: Okay, Lauren, what were the highlights?

Lauren Ross: Um, something that I think is something that we should maybe talk about more or help try and provide resources for, and it's something that we probably are not really thinking about when we're, like, preaching, "You need to advocate. You need to advocate for your kid and do this." I'm an introvert. I mean, I can't even advocate for myself, and you want me to advocate for, like, my kid? Like, not that I don't have one, but if I did. And so, and she kind of brought that up, like she had to learn these skills to, to be able to do that because- Like, how else was she gonna get it done? Um, and that can be really hard for an introvert. And so I think that's maybe something that maybe we should kind of look into or find resources for those parents that are introverted who need help on learning how to be, be more vocal to advocate for their kids to, to get what they need, because I can [00:22:00] only imagine how hard and anxiety inducing that might be for them. And so I, I love that she kind of admitted that it was kind of hard and something that, a skill that she had to learn. So I kind of appreciated that.

And then I love talking about pairing with peers projects, like putting them together, working together. I think that's a great way to be inclusive and to learn, and then to help foster those relationships and friendships, and teaching that it's okay to be different, I think is really important. And I think with her school, which sounds amazing by the way, having neurodivergent and neurotypical kids together, everyone has access to those supports. And so it reminds me back when we were talking to Bryson, the music teacher, and that these things are there and it's not just for the kids that they were designed for. They can be very beneficial and [00:23:00] helpful to everyone. And so I think it sounds like her school is doing that and doing it well, and so I think that's really amazing.

Samantha Foote: Yeah, for sure. And I was gonna say, even people like me who are not introverts, but I'm a people pleaser and I don't want conflict-

Lauren Ross: Yeah ...

Samantha Foote: like going back to the introvert thing, I don't want conflict. I don't wanna like- confront anyone. So yes, in the future, we will have an episode of what to do if you're an introvert/people pleaser and how to advocate for your kid. So, yes. And then, yeah, it sounds like they're doing great things for inclusion, and I was recording another video for the Parenting with Confidence program today, and I was talking about communication differences, and I realized again that there's no deficits, like neurodivergent people don't have communication deficits, they just have different [00:24:00] communication styles. And so if we can teach neurodivergent people and teach neurotypical people how to talk to each other, then they can be friends and it will just be better. So-

Lauren Ross: Yeah ...

Samantha Foote: I thought that was interesting, like the same neurotypes- communicate better with each other obviously, because- they have the same communication, like, style pretty much. And so, yeah, I love that she's just putting people together like you would in the workforce- what they're gonna do for their whole life. They're going to be with neurotypical people, neurotypical people are gonna be with neurodivergent people, so learn how to get along, learn how to work together, and they're- doing that in the school. So I think that's fantastic.

Lauren Ross: And it's easier to do when they're young.

Samantha Foote: Oh, yeah.

Lauren Ross: for sure. So- I love it.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Well, thank you everyone for listening this week. If you are interested in the Parenting with Confidence Program, you can go to everybrainisdifferent.com and look [00:25:00] into that, where we have different trainings on just neurodivergence, positive parenting strategies, and emotional regulation for yourself, 'cause you can't help your kids regulate if you don't regulate yourself.

Lauren Ross: Preach it.

Samantha Foote: But yes, we will see you next week. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. We hope this discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with support, understanding and inspiration. If you're looking for more support, Or you can go to everybrainisdifferent.com and download the ultimate guide to parenting your neurodivergent child.