85 - NeuroFascial Flow Method™ with Dr. Satya Sardonicus

Parenting Power Hour: https://www.everybrainisdifferent.com/

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Connect with Samantha Foote!

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TRANSCRIPT

Samantha Foote: [00:00:00] Welcome to Every Brain is Different, the podcast where we celebrate the unique world of neurodiversity. We are your hosts, Samantha Foote, a neurodivergent board certified music therapist and mom to three kids of ADHD and autism, and Lauren Ross, an ally to the neurodivergent community with over 10 years of experience supporting children and adults with autism.

This podcast is for parents like you. Navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you. Welcome to the Every Brain is Different podcast. 

We are here with Dr. Satya Sardonicus. She is a chiropractor and expert in neurobiology of stress. She developed the neurofascial flow method to address her own debilitating symptoms including chronic fatigue, POTS, fibromyalgia, drop attacks, and sensory overload caused by cerebellar tonsillitis. Actopia. [00:01:00] Despite specializing in pediatric sensory processing, she discovers significant parallels between her symptoms and those of children with conditions like autism, dyslexia, ADHD, schizophrenia, and Tourette's, as well as their parent challenges.

Today we'll delve into how chronic stress and trauma affects sensory processing and learn practical ways to enhance nervous system function at home. Dr. Satya is known for her popular TikTok tips. And shares insights on optimizing brain receptivity for healing and change. Welcome to the show. We're so excited to have you.

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. 

Samantha Foote: I kind of feel like after I read that, there are some words that I'm not familiar with. And I feel like that's how people feel when they read my bio and they have to say like neurological music therapy and dialectical behavioral therapy. Like I just, I feel for people now, but I think I can do it.

Okay. Can you just tell us a [00:02:00] little bit more how you're involved in the neurodivergent community? 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. There is, there's a couple of components to it. One, I am sure that if I went to somebody who wanted to diagnose me, I would be diagnosed on the spectrum. I've always been extremely hypersensitive, hyperreactive when I was a kid.

And it's interesting, there was a lot of things that my parents attributed to my personality, like always wanting to control other people around me in my environment, and needing organization and order, and doing really poorly with transitions, like, that are often seen in kids who are neurodivergent and adults.

And it's interesting because as I got older, and when I, nobody knew I had that condition, the CTE condition, until I was 26 years old, I was having a lot of really crazy symptoms in my late teens and early 20s, but it was not until it was 26 that we realized I actually [00:03:00] had gotten a brain herniation out of my skull from a car accident when I was 7 years old.

And that's young enough that my parents can't really differentiate. I was talking to my dad not long ago, and he, he's a lot of these things that we thought were just your personality when you were a kid. Are probably actually because you had this brain injury that is actually extremely common and missed most of the time.

So it's interesting, so I have my own neurodivergence, and then also unrelated, or seemingly unrelated, I chose to specialize in working with kids with sensory processing challenges. Early on, even in my clinical residency, I was getting referred. The kids of my colleagues' patients who had really severe autism couldn't stay at their special school anymore.

When I was just a little baby clinician because I was I think now it's because I could relate so much because of such overlap in our experience of the [00:04:00] world. Yeah. 

Samantha Foote: Yeah. So that kind of is how I like. I think I came to working with kids who are neurodivergent too is my own experience, but I didn't know it.

It was seemingly unrelated. And so I love how you had your own experience and now you're working with those kids. But I think it brings a level of understanding that if you didn't have that experience, then you wouldn't know how to help them. Like this kid the other day was like. You don't know how I feel and I'm like, I think I, I said, I'm neurodivergent.

He's no, you're not. I said, yes, I am. And so it's just, you can just relate to kids in a new way and other like adults and their parents, then if you weren't, didn't have that worldview. 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: It's true. And, and like, I just want to say one thing, it's one of the most common things I think patients have said to me is.

You understand me in a way that no other doctor has, and [00:05:00] you probably get this also, and it's because I've had that experience of neurodivergence, and also the trauma experiences that I've had. I know what it's like to be inside of a nervous system that is deeply traumatized, and there's a lot of overlap, it turns out.

A lot of overlap that we don't necessarily recognize because I, I have wonderful parents who love me. Like, I didn't have what you might think was a traumatic childhood. Like, I did have the physical trauma, the head injury, but like, a lot of people have different kinds of physical, chemical, emotional stressors, uh, that can.

Trap the brain in an alarm mode, a way of being that is like perceiving everything through the lens of alarm and it really dramatically changes how you experience everything and and it connects a lot of different symptoms like there's the sensory stuff But then you might also have digestive stuff or sleep issues and they're treated by separate specialists But they're actually all part of this lens [00:06:00] of alarm 

Samantha Foote: Yes, thank you so much for saying that, because I know so many kids that they have the endocrinologist and the sleep doctor and the digestive health doctor.

I can't, I'm just going to say GI and then treat things completely separately. Yes. And it's not. I think it does a disservice, like I understand why they have to be treated separately, but we need to be looking at the whole child to understand how we can help them. 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: It's this, it's this phenomenon. I totally agree.

It's a phenomenon like that in order to really understand something deeply and specialize in something, you have to zoom in and get really hyper specific in what you're looking at. But then. This is where, I think, a major failure happens, is we're not stepping back and looking at how the pieces all fit together.

So you can't see the forest for the trees, and you end up [00:07:00] siloing patients into these targeted treatments. Whether it's, I don't even necessarily mean a medical or pharmaceutical treatment, but like even a therapeutic. We're busy micromanaging and trying to do like brain rehab exercises for these different neural pathways.

When it's like, okay, but if the brain is in an alarm mode, then it changes everything, including your brain's, like, receptivity to change anyway. Like, I had this, if, if you don't mind, I'm thinking of this one kid, I have such a powerful story, that totally blew up my practice when I had, like, just moved to Portland, Oregon.

I was starting all over, I'd had a clinic, several clinics, actually, on the East Coast. But, I took care of this little 10 year old boy, who'd been in OT for 18 months. And he'd done pretty well, according to their metrics. But four weeks into me taking care of him, the head of that clinic called me up and she said, What OT are you doing with him?

What brain exercises? He just had an assessment, and he's made [00:08:00] more change in the last four weeks than he has in the past year and a half. And I was like, I've literally done zero brain exercises with him. What I did was I helped his nervous system get out of a state of alarm by introducing different kinds of body brain signaling, proprioceptive feedback, which we can talk about, and also reducing tension in his spinal cord through the fascia.

And those are major structural things that most, you know, even if somebody has realized, thank goodness a clinician has realized, that hey, this kid's nervous system is stuck in alarm mode. Or the parents of high needs kids, or aren't all kids high needs, are being trapped in an alarm mode, right? Even if somebody realized that, then you're like, oh, we'll try meditation, deep breathing.

And the structural piece is actually missed almost all of the time. The stuck places in the body can perpetuate that alarm mode. 

Samantha Foote: Yes, yes. I remember it was Three [00:09:00] years ago, I was stuck. I had a really traumatic thing happen in my life, and I was stuck in fight or flight mode for weeks. It, it was wild, and everything was a threat to me.

I was always on edge. I could never relax, and then it wasn't until I think I went to, uh, Nurse practitioner, and she found that I had really low levels of iron and my thyroid was out of whack. And then I had counseling and like all this stuff put together finally got me out of that mode. But I cannot imagine if you're like a young child and you have no idea what's happening to you.

I consciously knew, Oh, this thing happened to me and this is when that change happened. But I can't even imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I was really lucky. That's so direct. Like that's 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: fair. It's where, especially kids, kids who have neurodivergence, like, especially the sensory stuff, that you have this hyper reactivity to your environment, that's normal.

If your brain thinks that [00:10:00] your life is in danger, of course you want to be more sound sensitive and jumpy and aggressive and like, on edge, like, that's, that's appropriate. distortions are just not the brain doing anything broken, it's doing something adaptive and We're not meant to stay in that state for more than a couple hours.

Even a few weeks, max. I mean, even, but even that's pretty crazy, but I can't tell you how many people I've seen who have been in alarm their whole life. Years. Adults, decades, sometimes. 

Samantha Foote: Yeah. I, I've seen that, and I, I know exactly what you're talking about. Hey everyone, Samantha here, and I'm thrilled to invite you to join me for something special, the Parenting Power Hour.

This is your chance, parents of neurodivergent kids, to bring your questions directly to me and fellow parents in the room. We're here to help you develop actionable plans that really work so you can finally stop the meltdowns and find peace in your home. As a mom to three kids with ADHD and autism, I've seen and been [00:11:00] through the challenges too.

So trust me, we'll find solutions together that fit your family. Don't miss out on the Parenting Power Hour. It's a free, online, monthly gathering every second Thursday of the month from 1245 to 145 Mountain Standard Time. Visit EveryBrainIsDifferent. com to reserve your spot today. What can parents do if they see that their kid is in this state of fight or flight?

Or they're, they have trauma and they're not sure what to hap, what to do? Like, what do you suggest to parents? 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Okay, 

Samantha Foote: there's a 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: couple of things. One, as I mentioned, the most common overlooked contributing factor of keeping the brain locked in alarm is actually structural. And the solution is what I call neurostructural fluidity, where you need to make sure that all of the parts of the body, all of the joints, all of the soft tissue, can actually articulate smoothly.

Not just can you touch your toes, but can you articulate through your spine and through [00:12:00] all of your, your limbs, right? That being said. If there are stuck places in the body, whether it's jammed up joints or tight muscles or fascial adhesions or tension, oftentimes that's actually there as a protective mechanism because the body couldn't figure out how to handle something in the moment.

And so we splint, we brace, we freeze, and especially the fascia has a really strong protective function. So this is why Massage, PT, chiropractic, these bodywork therapies that are trying to loosen stuck places in the body can, best case, like, you're doing the same thing over and over and it just gets tight again as soon as you leave, or worse, can actually aggravate dysregulation and cause more dysregulation because the body's, I wasn't ready to let go of that, don't force me to let go of it.

And so it's really really important that we start with change receptivity and making sure that the nervous system, because when you're in alarm mode, even at the cellular level, cells can be in defense or they can be in healing and [00:13:00] growth and they can't be in both at the same time. Just like if you're in an argument and you feel attacked and made wrong like How interested are you in changing your mind to their point of view?

Right? Even later, on reflection, you're like, Oh, they made some good points. When you're in the moment when you're feeling attacked, and you're trying to be forced to change, then you, you double down on your resistance. And so that's the same thing that can happen. With body work. So we start with using as I mentioned proprioceptive feedback This is actually the natural way that the brain comes out of alarm Usually people think about proprioception as like your brain knowing where your body is in space, which is true but neuroscientists are actually proposing that Proprioceptive feedback might be more important for your brain than it is for your heart, lungs, or muscles.

Exercise might be more important for your brain because your brain requires not just oxygen and glucose, but proprioception in order to function normally. And usually you have some alarming trigger and then [00:14:00] you Respond to it and you move around and that turns down the signal. So if you smash your finger, right?

Alarm signals go to the brain, then you automatically want to shake it and squeeze it because movement and pressure both send proprioceptive signals to the brain. And that turns down the alarm response. Now, you might be, you might have been, when you had that big traumatic situation, you might have been more vulnerable to getting locked into fight or flight if you had some underlying places in the body that were not moving normally.

Just from life. Just running around, falling down, like, kids even like birth trauma often. Which might not even get called birth trauma, I've attended a lot of births that nobody said there's medically classified birth trauma, but like, they get squished, they get pulled, there's, and then learning to run, like, learning to walk, falling down, playing sports, falling down, like, getting knocked around, and so these things add up and you might have little sticky places that you don't even notice, they don't necessarily hurt, but what's happening is now your brain, every time a stressful thing happens, Has to handle that stressor with one hand tied behind its [00:15:00] back because it's starving for proprioception and instead Those places that are stuck are sending alarm signals 24 hours a day Even if nothing else ever stressed you out that would perpetuate alarm So the way that we can it's important to loosen get the neurostructural fluidity But that's a process that takes time and really needs to be done in a way that's in partnership Partner dancing, rather than dragging a toddler, kicking, and screaming.

In the meantime, though, you can use proprioceptive feedback as a supplement to feed the starving brain, and so the easiest way to do that is an exercise I call squeeze hugs, because it feels like a, like a good hug. Um, and you can do it to yourself. We can all do it right now. It's with broad hands, deep pressure.

It's not really with, like, claw fingers, and it's not massage. It's just, like, broad, deep compression, and you do it on the joints. So I'm, like, squeezing my hand bones. And also on the soft tissue. And I'm not trying to loosen anything stuck. I'm literally just, hey I've got you. And so you can, [00:16:00] you know, reposition every one or two seconds.

And you can notice, as I've just been doing this for what 15 seconds, my voice slowed down. I was getting all buzzy and excited from talking. And I didn't do this on purpose with my voice, it just, that's how fast the nervous system can shift. And so that's a really powerful tool, like if your kid's having a meltdown, or even if, They just had a big stressful event, or you.

But also if you're gonna go into a situation that might be tough. Into a transition time, or like, into trying to go to bed and they don't usually sleep well. You can do this beforehand and it primes the nervous system to be able to handle stressors. With more grace, and more resilience. So it's a really powerful thing to do, is like, first thing in the morning, you wake up, you just get ready for your day, do a bunch of squeeze hugs, and you really can't do too much.

I'm doing it on my hands and arms right now, because it's easy to see and reach, but feet are a great place to do this, [00:17:00] especially if kids are more sensory sensitive. Generally, the head, and anything close to the head is what feels the most unsafe, most of the time. And so the feet are really far away, and that could be a good place.

You could also totally use this as an excuse to justify asking for a foot massage. But so squeeze hugs is a great one. And then. You can also use a little somatic practice I like to call side seaweed. There's other dimensions, but we're gonna do side, and I'll show it to you. It's basically like, you can do it sitting or standing.

I happen to be standing right now, but you might do it sitting for the first time when you're, you know, learning this. So, you're gonna imagine that your sit bones are planted in the sand underwater. You can breathe underwater in this scenario. And And you're going to gently allow your spine to float from side to side, seeing if you can articulate through all the places.

And this is actually a really cool assessment as well. Like, notice, because what's really common is you'll articulate, articulate, and then the upper ribcage actually is often stuck [00:18:00] together, which is common in fight or flight, and so it'll kind of want to flop and then your head wants to flop. Don't let your head flop.

That's probably why neck muscles are tight chronically, if you feel that. Because it's compensating for this, not moving normally. What you can do is keep it super small so that you don't run into any stuck places. Like the bigness, the amplitude doesn't matter at all. It's how many joints you can get to articulate because.

That sends a ton of proprioceptive feedback to the brain. The spine has the highest density. The feet are the second. So, you want to look for fluidity of motion and letting your head trail. That's a common one. So you can teach your kid how to do this. You want to stand in front of them, and if you're doing it on yourself, look in a mirror or something to make sure, because what often happens is you'll go up until the lower neck, and then you lead with your head.

It can be really awkward. So you want to keep it super small and fluid. And that One sends a lot of proprioception to your brain, as long as you're doing it super small. If you want, you can bring in kind [00:19:00] of a texture like you're made of taffy. You're basically contracting all your muscles like 5%. And so that can actually give you a little bit of fascia release, and you can work through it.

But you gotta think about River wearing down rock. Don't try to chisel through it. If you come on hard places, then you want to go lighter so that you keep the fluidity instead of pushing through it. Because if you push through it, you're going to also send alarm signals. And that's actually why I developed a whole series of these kinds of exercises that send only proprioception because most exercise, if you just go out, go for a run, go play, you'll get proprioception, but you'll also get alarm signals from the places that aren't moving well.

And so it can be really helpful to just give the brain a lot of The positive signals, and when you do that on a regular basis, I actually published a study, I don't know, five or six years ago, probably showing that when people do these really small proprioceptive feedback exercises, and there's other fascia work to reduce the tension on the spinal cord and things, [00:20:00] we saw an 80 percent improvement in quality of life metrics, that's sleep, anxiety, cognitive function, social engagement, and pain, without me touching anyone, like that's all just the DIY work of this, which is it.

So cool. 

Samantha Foote: Yeah, that's amazing. 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah, so that's like opening the window of access then then you want to like ultimately Reduce the tension in the spinal cord through this hole. It's called the dural fascial kinetic chain And I know that's like way beyond what we can do today But I just want to give a little like snippet of it It's kind of like pulling up your stockings like pulling in the edge of a bedsheet when the fascia in the body That connects through the tailbone to the spinal cord.

If there's tension, like, in the calves or in the feet, then it can yank and it can actually physically stress the brain. And that's a, a structure that I actually First published in the literature in 2015 all the anatomical connections are there But I realized through my [00:21:00] work with my brain injury stuff actually that because of the brain injury I had from whiplash I had too much tension in my dural fascial kinetic chain and I couldn't touch my own neck.

And so I was like How can I, let me find the fascia attachment somewhere else and, and relieve the tension. And so many people have too much tension in their spinal cord, and it actually drives sensory processing disorder also, not just from the fight or flight alarm, but when you have this tension in the spinal cord, it can directly affect the cerebellum, which processes sensory information.

So there can be Mechanical reasons for it as well, whether somebody has the specific brain herniation I have, which definitely has that issue or even if they just have too much core tension because they sit on a device all day because you're crouched forward and you, you stretch out your spinal cord by losing your neck curve.

So there's a lot of dimensions to it, but the proprioceptive feedback is a really powerful way to get started. 

Samantha Foote: Yeah. Thank you. And then if people have more [00:22:00] questions about what to do after that, they can contact you. Uh, where, yeah, where can people find you online? 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: I am on TikTok and Instagram. My handle is at Dr.

Satya Wellness, D R S A T Y A Wellness. And then I also have, I always keep my most up to date resources in my, like the link in my profile on there. 

Samantha Foote: Yeah, that's awesome. Do you have any other resources that you recommend or that you would like to highlight for our audience that can help them? 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Uh, it's so the most powerful re like I put a ton of free content on my socials just trying to give people more agency over your own healing process.

For people that want to go deeper and like more fully learn this neurofascial flow method, I actually created an online program because I was so tired of people having to like travel from other states to come and see me when I don't know how to make it so that you don't need professional support at all.

But I do know that you can do 50 to 70 percent of the work at home. And so I created an online membership [00:23:00] platform where it gives you access to all of these awesome videos that takes you through it, but also you have access to me through the private community. And so that's just like a super affordable way to be able to dive deeper into this work.

It's called Inside the Chrysalis and it is linked on my, uh, on my socials. Awesome. That 

Samantha Foote: is great. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Our last question is, what do you do for fun? I dance. Yes, of course you do. 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: I love 

Samantha Foote: dancing. That's amazing. 

Dr. Satya Sardonicus: And also, I snuggle these puppies. Nice. Oh, cute. Obviously, for all the obvious reasons.

But also, what's really cool is They act as a sensory anchor of safety. And before I had them, I had the little stuffed animal avocado that we kept in our clinic as our mascot. She was Olivia, the emotional support avocado. Thank you so much for putting all of this together. What a [00:24:00] powerful resource. And like, I, I just think we can amplify our collective impact for good in the world when we, when we collaborate.

And I'm so grateful to be part of sharing with your community, uh, and, and just how we're. working to, to raise healthier kids. It's easier to grow healthy kids than fix grownups. That's true. That's true. So I appreciate your work for anyone. But what a powerful, what a powerful influence on our future world.

Samantha Foote: Yes, for sure. And with that, thank you so much for coming on the show. Absolutely. Take care. Thanks. Well, Lauren, what were the highlights? What did you think? 

Lauren Ross: Oh my gosh, I am like fascinated right now. This is like all fun information. I, I think she's amazing and I am excited to try some of these things that she showed us.

I like that she kind of [00:25:00] brought up, and we've kind of talked about this a little bit, but like peer support or working with people who are experiencing the same, same things or has. And so if you are lucky enough to find a provider that is neurodivergent, then I highly recommend it because I think it sounds like there's just so much more success with that.

And I love bringing up the point that doctors like so many times, yeah, they narrow into their scope of service and then That's great and awesome, but then we forget to take that step back and, and look at the whole person and how that might affect all of those different areas and stuff like that. And so, I like the bringing that up.

I'm excited to use this as justification for more foot massages. 

Samantha Foote: Absolutely. I will 

Lauren Ross: Absolutely do that. And I'm really grateful and, uh, love that she actually showed us. Uh, some techniques, so I'm just very happy and I'm excited [00:26:00] to do some of those to see if it helps the stress and tension that I have.

Samantha Foote: Yeah. And if. If people are listening to this and you want to see it, it's, we have all our episodes on YouTube, that you can, now we have videos, the previous, the beginning episodes, we did not have videos, but we have video now, so you can go and see it, and see what she did. 

Lauren Ross: Absolutely. 

Samantha Foote: So, all for listening this week, uh, we really appreciate you listening, and if you have any questions, or comments, Feedback for us.

Let us know. Yeah, . Okay. Have a good week. We'll see you next week. 

Lauren Ross: Thank you for listening to today's episode. We hope this discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with support, understanding, and inspiration. If you're looking for more support, you can go to every brain is different.com and download the Ultimate Guide to Parenting Your Neurodivergent Child.