79 - The Dyslexic Edge with Jamie Waller

Jamie's information:

The Dyslexic Edge: Unleash the Power of Thinking Differently https://jamiewaller.co.uk/books/

Website: https://jamiewaller.co.uk/

Twitter: https://x.com/jamiebwaller

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-waller-0b04063

Connect with Samantha Foote!

Website: www.everybrainisdifferent.com

Email: [email protected]

TRANSCRIPT

This podcast is for parents like you, navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. I'm a neurodivergent mother of three amazing neurodivergent children and a board certified music therapist. Our mission is to create a supportive space where you feel understood, connected, and inspired.

With practical tips, strategies, and resources, we'll help you and your child thrive in your unique way. Join us as we dive deep into the diverse world of neurodivergent individuals exploring topics like ADHD, autism, dyslexia, sensory processing challenges, and more. We'll cover it all to empower, educate, and uplift both neurodivergent individuals.

And those who walk alongside them together, we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you. We are your hosts, Samantha Futt and Lauren Ross, and this is the every brain is different podcast.

Welcome to the every brand is different podcast. We're here with Jamie Waller and he is a dyslexic serial entrepreneur. Philanthropist and investor, Jamie grew up in London's East End where he was told by teachers he wouldn't amount to anything. Despite leaving school with no qualifications, he started multiple businesses, became a multimillionaire in his 20s, and featured in a primetime TV show that followed him starting his first business.

In a conversation with Sir Richard Branson, Jamie decided to write The Dyslexic Edge, which challenges the narrative that views dyslexia as a deficit or impediment to success. Presenting compelling research and case studies from interviewing some of the world's most successful dyslexics to demonstrate quite the opposite.

Jamie, we are so excited to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank you for having me. Thanks for inviting me on the platform to talk about something that, you know, personally is very close to my heart. So yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about your journey and how you're involved in the neurodivergent community?

Yeah, absolutely. So obviously I am dyslexic. I'm dyslexic, ADHD, colorblind, and was once born very poor in, in London's East End, had a rough time in schooling. As you can imagine, left school without any qualifications, went to work for myself because really saw that as the only option. Was very successful, um, as a young entrepreneur, uh, sold my first business age 36.

went on to sell another age 38 and I have since built and scaled a number of businesses across the UK, US, Australia and New Zealand. And during that time, I've also done a number of sort of large philanthropy projects within charitable sectors, including I spent three years as chair of the King's Trust here in the UK.

And it was while I was doing that work in and out of prisons that I learned the statistic that over 50 percent of prisoners are dyslexic, which made me start to think more about my own dyslexia and the negative impact it had on me as a child, but. Some of the positive impacts it has had on me as an adult.

And as you quite rightly say in my, in my intro, I was very fortunate to be spending time with one of the most famous dyslexic people on earth, Sir Richard Branson, and him and I were talking about this very subject, which led me to come up with the idea that we should get out there and do a book and talk to people like Richard.

Like the, some of the, some of the sharks from Shark Tank, the dragons from Dragon's Den here in the UK, and other successful people about what dyslexia, how dyslexia, dyslexia had an impact on them, both as a child, as young adults, and who they are today. So we, we spent a couple of years working with, uh, a professor here at Cambridge University, went and interviewed people all over the world, and, and told 14 great stories in, in the book, The Dyslexic Edge.

about how, you know, yes, dyslexia is an Achilles heel, but it does have some very good strong traits that lend themselves to certain things. Also. Yeah. Can you tell us how, what are some of those traits and just the good things about dyslexia? Because you hear so often like Teachers especially are like, you're not going to amount to anything.

You're not going anywhere. You're not applying yourself in school. I've heard all those things. So can you tell us some of the good things and how you think it can help people? Yeah, absolutely. And I should first start by saying that actually, the Dr. Helen Taylor, the professor at Cambridge University here that I worked with on the book, had been studied, has been studying this subject for over 25 years.

And she has this wonderful piece of research that she's conducted and this narrative around, you know, there are two types of people born into the This, uh, there are those that are explorers and there are those that are exploiters, and a roughly 15 percent of the population of born explorers and the others exploiters.

And if you think pre 500 years ago, when we were all told that we had to learn to sort of remember things through reading and writing, the exploiters were the people that go it out. searching for new opportunities, land, food, and they would continuously fail and try again. And when they did succeed, they would come back, introduce that success to the exploiters who would take it on to do more things with it.

And some of the research in the book points towards that narrative that actually dyslexia is nothing more than a badge that's been given to us exploiters. There are 15 percent of the population that are That are dyslexic and the traits if you if you match the positive traits of dyslexia to the positive traits of an explorer, they match identically like for so you know, that, that ability to see the bigger picture that ability to keep on going that ability to Storytell To, to, to, to be creative, to be curious and storytelling a key one there that I see.

I was doing a talk at a school earlier on today to some dyslexic children, that ability to, to create what they want to say into bike packaged information and communicated effectively is wonderful. So some people think that the positive traits of dyslexia have come through hardship. I don't believe in that.

And that also, I think it's not a useful message to be, to be given out because it almost says, well, continue to treat those with dyslexia badly, and they will be okay anyway, which just simply isn't the case. The positive traits of dyslexia are not learned through your childhood. They, you are born with them.

You are, if you are born with a dyslexic mind, you are born with those positive attributes too, and that's important to recognize. So no longer should we just simply say that dyslexia is a superpower, so don't worry, let's continue as is. We should recognize that dyslexia is an Achilles heel. Yes, it has some superpower tendencies.

Yes, those with dyslexia are born with some certain traits that lend themselves very well to entrepreneurship, uh, the media, uh, creative industries, but also 50 percent of them end up in U. S. or U. K. jails. That is not a good statistic, and that is one that we should all be focusing on how we can divert those people.

hopefully before jail, or some of the work I've been doing is it's not always easy to divert people pre jail because of their circumstances and how difficult they are to reach. But can we go into prisons and help them so that when they come out this outrageous statistic, uh, sort of over 70 percent of them re offending can be reduced and they can go back to normal life and activity.

You know, I like to say you can, you can come out of prison. And, and apply for a job, and it might be very difficult to get a job. You can come out of prison and go online and set up a digital company and no one else would question. And we need to be given that information. It's a real good option for people that may have taken the wrong path at the wrong stage in life.

Yes. Can you tell us some of the other things that you help prisoners with coming out of prison to help them get their life kind of back on track? Yeah. So, I mean, one of the main things that I like to do is go in and talk to them as, you know, somebody that they can relate to. And some of the work I did here for the King's Trust was very much that, to go stand on stage and say, look, I grew up in a, in a similar environment to you.

I was stabbed as a young adult myself at home. We grew up in a poor neighborhood. I was in and out of. jail, being arrested from time to time for aggressive behavior because that's the environment I grew up in. And I was very fortunate that I found self employment. I found a route to making money, which took me away from that and others aren't.

But I can tell those messages to, to people and they can relate to me. It's very different. You know, if you've got Sir Richard Branson to go on a stage in prison, it just wouldn't might not have the same effect as it does when somebody like me goes there and says, I went from having not a couple of dollars in my bank account to having over a hundred million dollars in my bank account because, uh, because I focused my energy and my skillset in this direction.

And by the way, that energy and skillset is the same energy and skillset that most of you in this, in this jailhouse have. You've just directed it in the wrong place. You know, if you think of an entrepreneur and a bank robber, there's a lot of similar traits amongst those two. Yes. For sure. And one of the best things we ever did, Samantha, sorry to have cut you there is one of my real, one of the things I really reminds me of the success we had at the charities.

We went into a women's prison here in London and this young female, mid twenties had been in jail. She was sentenced to seven years for violent crimes. And we went in and we were talking to them about the options to start your own business when you leave prison. And she very boldly. said, well, we get free time within prison, then we get access to the library and we get access to a computer room.

Could we, could, what, is there any law to stop me doing it from prison? And I was a bit like, oh wow, that, no, I've never been asked that. question and I don't think there is. And actually she got the support from the prison and the trust to set up an online florist while she was serving her last two years in jail.

And nobody knew it, but people were ordering flowers online and these flowers were going viral. via a prison cell in Holloway, North London, and then going out to a main distribution warehouse and then being delivered to somebody's house. I saw that female a couple of years after she left prison and she had, she was now recruiting a few people at her own florist and was absolutely striving.

And so, I mean, you know, you can't do that for, for, for them all, but just doing it for one to be able to change one person's life in that direction is very, very powerful. Yes, and then, you know, she can go on to change other people's lives like you're saying she's recruiting people and it just has that effect I love that you're helping these prisoners.

I had no idea that it was that high the statistic was that high But if you think about it if you're told your whole life You're not gonna amount to anything and you can't fit into the mold of like traditional school traditional work Then what else are you gonna do you have to? You know, you either go like you did in to entrepreneurship or you go the other way because.

There's not very many options. I know that I know someone who is very dyslexic, can hardly read at all, and he has created this amazing business with his family, and now like his kids are running it, he's running it with his brothers, and it's like this multi million dollar business, and I had no idea that he like basically could not read and I was like, whoa, you did all of that.

So definitely like, he just thinks differently. Like you were saying, there's. Like I was, I was doing a presentation last night about neurodivergent minds and I was like, they're not right. They're not wrong. They're just, they're just different and we need to accept differences in school, especially so that they don't feel like they're not gonna amount to anything or that they're failures or that if they just work harder, you know, they could get it.

So, yes, I really appreciate everything that you've said. It's just really important to think about, I think. It really is, and you know, you, you said something there. Actually, I was at a school this morning who, I was blown away by this, by this teacher at the school who said, I would like you to do this talk in the school, but I don't want to focus on the research.

I don't necessarily want to focus on all the benefits or the negatives. What I want to focus on is if we identify With those that are dyslexic thinkers that they may add value in the classroom environment to people that are not and I just thought, Oh, that's so lovely because I do a lot of talks about, we have all known for many years for 2030 years the diversity and leadership.

delivers better outcomes, right? If you have a mixture of male, female, gay, straight, Asian, non Asian, Hispanic, you know, bringing different communities together to make collective decisions normally delivers better outcomes. But we never think about that Or we haven't started to think about that until recently with people that are neurodivergent or dyslexia.

And I would like to see every board of every FTSE or, or S& P 500 company think about actively going out to recruit dyslexic thinkers to make part of their CDM management teams because it will help in some of the projects they're working in some of the ways they come to conclusions for certain problem solving.

And if we can start to do that at a school, I'd never thought about it until I heard this today. If we can start to have people in a classroom going, Hey. I know that this project, I know Samantha's going to be great at this project because she's dyslexic and I know all of the positive traits of dyslexia.

And I know that this project needs me to think slightly outside the box, or it needs more creativeness or it needs more problem solving. And I want children to be actively going, Hey, Samantha, can you, can you work in my group for this? And if we can start delivering that age 5, 6, 7, then in 20 years, dyslexia will be a real ingrained, powerful part of every community, in every leadership, government, business, nursing, you know, healthcare, whatever it is.

Yes. If you start them young, then as they grow, it will just be normal to them instead of being like, Oh, well, that's not what we normally do. And like it was said last night, someone said in the presentation, they made a comment and they were like, instead of getting stuck in a rut, think outside the box.

But it was for a church thing. And so she's think outside the box, think differently, but stay to the handbook, stay within the, you know, the guidelines, but you don't have to do the same thing that you've been doing for people have been doing for 50 years or a hundred years or whatever, like you can change things and still stay within the guidelines of the company or the school or whatever.

I just thought that was really cool. Don't stay stuck in the rut. But you can stay within the guidelines of the things that have been set up. Yes. So what would you suggest to parents of dyslexic kids who, what would you say to them who are just raising dyslexic kids? How can they help them? Well, the first thing is to, the first thing is to come to terms with it and, um, get them the support they need because, you know, the, the, uh, American Association of Dyslexia study from last year shows that the two biggest blockers for children getting assistance at the right age.

Our first parents who simply think they will grow out of it, they're a bit of a slow learner, you know, not my child, or out of fear that they'll get a horrible badge. And the second one is, is teachers, and teachers do it because they don't believe, they're worried that if they get that badge the school can't support them, so they just think, well I'll try it.

and help them a bit more myself, but actually it's really not that useful. It's really important that those with dyslexia come to terms with it as soon as possible themselves and, and get the assistance that they need so that they don't, because if the problem with just living with dyslexia at a young age is it's severely damaging to your confidence and if you, if you lose your confidence it's something that's really difficult to get back and sometimes never.

Never returns without severe intervention So I would say and you know I do like to caveat this with, I'm dyslexic, so I'm the patient, not the doctor. I don't have the answers, I only have my own opinions from my own research and from the people I've spoken to. But I'd certainly, I would, I would get a diagnosis early, lean on the support that's available.

Make sure your children realize the positives of dyslexia. You don't need to buy a book from me to work that out. A single, simple Google or chat GPT search. But also, don't simply tell them it's a superpower to get on with it. Recognize that It does mean that some, some things in, in what is classified as normal circumstances are going to be more challenging for you.

You know, if you're given an application form or you're doing a music lesson and you're trying to learn to read music, which is typically quite difficult for a dyslexic person. So I do think. I don't like the narrative of us all going around, just telling dyslexic people that it's a superpower because it's not, it's really not useful to not at least try and reason with them on a gentle understanding that it's very difficult for you to, I mean, I'm dyslexic and ADHD, I'm 45 years of age, I'm very successful and self independent and dyslexia has a negative impact on me every single day of my life, without a doubt.

Now it probably also has 12 or 13 positives, but it still has one negative, and I have to live with that, and that can be sometimes something that only I recognize. Sometimes it can be, I get on the train and completely go to the wrong location because I've misread the, the, the sign on the train platform, or sometimes it'd be hugely embarrassing.

It could be because someone's put me on the spot and called me out to do something in front of a group of people that involve reading something off of a board and I wasn't able to do so. And that is difficult for anybody. Yeah, for sure. So I definitely like how you said. Come to terms with it, get them the assistance that they need recognize that, you know, there are hard things about having dyslexia and then also recognize that there's good things.

And someone else on the podcast said, look at their strengths. Play on their strengths, but get them the support for the things that they need to work on so that they can feel successful. Exactly. And find another dyslexic person that they can relate to. It doesn't have to be a famous person. It doesn't have to be a rock star or an entrepreneur.

It could be another child. It could be their uncle. It could be their auntie. It really doesn't matter. What's more important is that they, that they, that they find them. inspirational or that they can at least relate to them. So I would say don't always bet, you know, it's pointless getting your four year old boy and showing him videos of Sir Richard Branson's career every night and expecting to pick up on the positives of dyslexia.

He's just not going to get it. But if you get, uh, your four or five year old little boy and find a storyteller. You know, someone who writes very creative children's books that's dyslexic and you can start to wind those books into their life. And how, isn't it amazing that the dyslexic mind has been able to create such stories with such vivid imagination.

Then that is the sort of stuff where you're not, you can't sit someone down and say, Hey, Be confident, don't worry, you've got this superpower, go and, go and get them. It needs, it's, it's nurture, it's more nurture than, than that. So take your time, find somebody relative, try and, try and make, make them look up to someone and then it can become something that's consistent in their life, rather than just every now and again, giving them this sort of loud message that it will be okay.

Yes. I love it. I love it. Well, I could talk to you all day about this, but what resources do you have for parents? Are there any other resources that you would recommend for parents? Yeah, there's a brilliant, brilliant global charity that's doing a lot of stuff in the US and the UK called Made by Dyslexia.

It's a charity of Sir Richard Branson and run by a lady called Kate Griggs, who features in my book, The Dyslexic Edge, that has tons of free resource for parents, teachers, and those that think they're dyslexic or are dyslexic going. Have some fun with that. And also, you know, as I say to everybody, I'm wrapping up these podcasts.

You know, my book is available globally in all formats, but if anyone is listening or watching and, and cannot afford a copy of the book, you just reach out to me, it's just my name, jamiewaller. com, we will get a book to you in any format for free, because it's about helping people, uh, and mostly helping those with dyslexia, maintain their confidence and become the people they can be.

That's amazing. Do you, is your book available on like Audible or audio? Yeah, all formats, all countries and obviously on Amazon, but other bookstores too. Yes. Okay. I love it. Are, is there anywhere else that you would want people to find you online or do you just want them to go to your website? Go to my website or LinkedIn is the main places, but you'll find me pretty easy with a quick Google.

Okay. Awesome. And then our last question is, what do you do for fun? Uh, CrossFit mainly. So CrossFit is my consistent, which is quite, um, good for somebody with ADHD. It's my, it's my outlet every morning, but I also do a lot of adventures. So my connection to Sir Richard Branson is because I'm going to space with Virgin Galactic and I do a lot of desert trekking, a lot of kayaking, anything that I can do.

That involves pushing myself, pushing the limits and, um, yeah, enjoying this beautiful world. That's amazing. That is so cool that you get to do that. I've definitely never had anyone say that's what they do for fun. So I love it. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. We really appreciate your time coming on the show and sharing everything that you've shared with us.

Thank you. I really appreciate the platform and all the work that you're doing. So keep it up. Thanks. Well, Lauren, what did you think? What were the highlights? Oh my gosh. What an amazing guy and all the things that he's doing and has done and has accomplished. I'm loving all of it. I was very unaware of the statistic he mentioned with the amount of.

People in prison, dyslexia, so that was very interesting. So, so many things we could talk about. Uh, first thing, uh, that I think is really important and is good to do. We talk about youth immune therapy and their speech therapy and some of, one of the, one of the things that we can do that is sometimes more beneficial.

Is that peer support, finding them someone else that has going through the same thing or has experienced the same things and has been successful. And that's just like in all areas, like mental health, like whatever, like veteran support groups, like having that peer support, I think is really, really important.

Like, yes, all the other things in the professionals and all that can be helpful, but I think finding that. That peer support is always like such a great plus. And so he mentioned that a few times. And so I really loved that. And talking about when you lose your confidence, it's really hard to get it back.

And especially when you're a kid. Um, and again, if you have people who are telling you you're not good enough, or you need to be trying harder where we're basically inducing learned helplessness and a lack of confidence, and it just makes it harder. Yes. They can overcome those things, but like, why are we making them overcome?

Like, why let's just support them from the get go. And I really appreciated the. Acknowledging, acknowledge that you have this, especially for parents. I know talk about sometimes they want to run away from that label or a diagnosis or, Oh, no, grow out of it, or it's not a bad thing, it's okay. Um, and to acknowledge it, acknowledge like, yes, these are the hardships that you're going to come across, but also these are all of the, the, the benefits.

Um, And so I think, I know we've been guilty of a couple of times of saying the superpower, it's your superpower, but so I appreciated kind of taking a step back and yes, they do, but they still have things that affect them every single day because of it that they overcome. And so I appreciated that, that reminder of acknowledge, overcome it, deal with it, um, know that there are hardships, um, but there's also all these great things that you can do.

So I really appreciated that. Yeah, I really liked how he said about the superpower thing because like on my own website I have turned neurodivergence into a superpower and all I mean by that is look at your strengths and know that these are things that other people don't have while still recognizing that there are things in your life that make your life very difficult.

And I don't, I always wonder if people take it that way because that's what I mean. What I mean by turning neurodivergence into a superpower is just playing on your strengths, working with your own brain, knowing how it works so that you can be successful. While still realizing that there are some things that don't come easily and that make your life very difficult.

You do. There's still kryptonite out there. Yes, yes. I was just thinking of Superman. Superman has all these amazing, like, things that he can do, but you put kryptonite next to him, he's donezo, you know? Right, yeah. So, you, you have to just realize But he plays to his strengths, and he uses his strengths for good, and then deals with the Kryptonite when it comes along, and cuts up, he has a plan in place for when he does go into Kryptonite, you know?

So yeah, I, I, that's so funny because I was thinking about Superman while you were talking. But yeah, I really appreciated his message and everything that he does for prisoners and just the dyslexic community. Definitely go get his book. It's amazing. Definitely check out the Made by Dyslexia, what that website, I just popped it open and it looks great.

And they can already tell there's like just tons of resources on there. So definitely check that out as well. And I will put his book and Made by Dyslexia in the show notes. So just click on that link and you can find all the resources. But yeah, but thank you all for listening this week. We truly appreciate you listening.

And if there's anything you want to hear on the show, let us know. We can talk about it. We can find a guest to talk about it. Whatever. And yeah, we hope you have a good week. Thank you for listening to this episode. We hope the discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with support, understanding, and inspiration.

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