77 - Building Bridges for Dyslexic Learners: Lynn and Jonathan Greenburg

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TRANSCRIPT

 This podcast is for parents like you, navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. I'm a neurodivergent mother of three amazing neurodivergent children and a board certified music therapist. Our mission is to create a supportive space where you feel understood, connected, and inspired.

With practical tips, strategies, and resources, we'll help you and your child thrive in your unique way. Join us as we dive deep into the diverse world of neurodivergent individuals exploring topics like ADHD, autism, dyslexia, sensory processing challenges, and more. We'll cover it all to empower, educate, and uplift both neurodivergent individuals and those who walk alongside them.

Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you. We are your hosts, Samantha Foote and Lauren Ross, and this is the Every Brain is Different podcast.

Welcome to the Every Brain is Different podcast. We're here with Lynn and Jonathan Greenberg. And Lynn has focused her life on being a champion for children. As a trained attorney, she spent her time in the legal world, practicing family law. Providing pro bono work for kids and advocating on their behalf.

When her youngest son Jonathan was diagnosed with dyslexia, becoming his advocate as well as others came easy. Understanding how to gather facts and create strategic plans, Lynn developed a roadmap to success for her son and has since become an active supporter of all neurodivergent children. Writing a children's book with Jonathan was simply the natural progression for Lynn.

Robbie the Dyslexic Taxi and the Airport Adventure was born out of Lynn's desire for neurodivergent children to be able to see themselves in characters in a storyline. Lynn plans to continue creating stories relatable for all children. Welcome to the show! We were so excited to have you both on! Thanks!

Thanks for having us. Yeah, for sure. So, can you tell us a little more about your neurodivergent journey and how you got to where you are in writing the book and everything? Well, it's, it's John's journey. We did it as a family. John is my youngest of four. And early on, I knew that there was going to be, there was just something a little different about the way he was learning.

I know every child, every person learns differently, but John was not really. Meeting a lot of the milestones that you would think he would meet. But I knew he was super smart because he could tell me every time it's the tank engine's name, but not tell me that Thomas started with the letter T. So we started exploring where he kind of was and what we thought might be kind of off.

And that's how, that's what started the journey and ended with our writing the book together and John doing all the wonderful illustrations with a lot in between. Yeah. Yeah. And John, can you tell us a little more about your experience with having dyslexia and how you got diagnosed and just your journey with that?

Of course. When I was younger, I dealt with a lot of frustration from not being able to read or write. I could not for the life of me figure out Why I was like this, some teachers didn't really give me any benefit of the doubt. I, so I, I felt slow that I was missing something and it was really disheartening.

So when I got tested and found out I was dyslexic, it was honestly a very comforting feeling to know it wasn't just me and that there's a reason behind that. But I still knew there was a lot that I needed to do after that and a lot of work that I needed to put into it. So it's only with the help of my family and my mom that I managed to get to where I am now.

And the Winward School, the school I went to that specifically teaches children with dyslexia and similar neurodivergent issues. Yeah, that's amazing. I love that there's a school for that. Because I know a lot of kids in the school system, they're like, there's nothing. We can do for dyslexia. They just have to suffer through it basically is what I was told.

And I'm like, no, there has to be something that we can do. So there's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So can you tell us some of the strategies that were used to help John and Lynn or John, either one of you can answer that? So, unfortunately, I think many public schools are, there are just so many kids, and it's very hard for the teachers to teach to everybody.

And even the learning specialists can't possibly know how to teach every neurodivergent issue. And I think it's very hard. And unfortunately, we don't give our teachers the tools they need. And so we knew we were going to have to make a family decision. And look a little bit elsewhere, John was not going to get what he needed in our school system.

And we found this wonderful school that could teach all kids with dyslexia or other language based learning differences. And they use a method called the Orton Gillingham method, which is often used with dyslexics and has had an amazing I mean, every child that comes out of Windward and everyone who I know who has used the Orton-Gillingham method has learned maybe to a greater or a lesser degree, but absolutely how to read and write.

And it's a, a tried and true proven method, and there are definitely others. But this one is definitely a proven way to educate kids with learning, with language issues, with reading issues. Yeah, I'd never heard of that. That's amazing because there's so many times where, yeah, like I said, teachers just don't know what to do.

There's no programs that I've heard of. And so I've heard of vision therapy for kids who have, or adults too, that have like, Eye processing issues like vision processing, but I don't know if that's the same thing as dyslexia. So there's different things in there. Yeah. So I've heard of that, but that's awesome that there's a program for that.

John, can you tell us a little bit about your experience, like going through the program and what you would tell. Excuse me, what you would tell teachers and parents of kids who have dyslexia? Well, going through the program, first off, it was just a total relief to find out I was not alone. Because when I was in the public school, I was the kid that had to go to the special ed help, the tutor.

It, it just Really set me apart from the rest of the group and it gave me a sense of isolation going to a program where everyone else was dealing with the same thing really just gave me a moment's pause and allowed me to think, Oh, I'm not alone. This, this can be fixed, and it was. Again, it was a total relief as for what I'd say to parents and teachers is that it will take time.

Anyone with the slicey it's not a snap and it's finished situation. In general, it takes time and perseverance and trusting what the child has to say. I know if I had been in a different family and they had listened to my concerns, like my parents did, I would not be able to read as fluently as I am now.

So it takes a little bit of trust and a little bit of just knowing your child or the student in question. Yeah, definitely. And I love how you talked about giving it time and also that you weren't, you didn't feel alone anymore. I think that is a really important thing. I know when I got diagnosed with OCD, I found a podcast that talked about OCD and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is exactly my life.

Like. I'm not alone. Other people feel this way. And so what would you tell parents who maybe they don't want to get their kid diagnosed with something because they don't want the label because they feel like they're going to be labeled and they'll be looked at differently. So what would you tell those parents?

I think, I think that a lot of parents are obviously very well meaning, but I think they see their children as an extension to who they are. And for whatever reason, a lot of parents don't, don't see differences as a positive. They see it as a negative and to us, the difference, the differences are the superpowers.

I think it's really important to really see your child for who he or she or they are and to really listen and give them what they need to be successful. It's not about what you want for them. It's about what they need. And each child, each person is different and needs to learn differently. And It's important to find your people.

When John was younger, the computer was slower. You couldn't just Google everything. There weren't Facebook groups. And so we needed to find our people and that wasn't the easiest thing. But now I think, I think it's important no matter what, where you are, but it's important to find a community. And find it in your town, find it online, but find people who, like you said, who can be there, be supportive and, and give you some information that you might benefit from or your child might benefit from.

Yes, finding community. I love it. That's why That's why I started the parenting group for parents raising neurodivergent kids. That's why I started that. So people would have a community to come to talk to other people, realize that they're not alone. And I love what you said about finding their superpowers and finding the positive in a diagnosis, because once you get the diagnosis, you can be like, okay, here's what we need to work on.

But here's these beautiful things that are coming out of the diagnosis. Can you tell us some of those things, maybe that, John, what are your superpowers? What, what came out of the diagnosis for you that you see as positive? Well, as mentioned before, I, I did the illustrations for the book, Robbie to dyslexic taxi.

And that was just sort of. That's the tip of the iceberg iceberg in that because I wasn't able to read or write I ended up really falling in love with creating art. And even after I was remediated that urge to create has not gone away and has persisted. And so, Honestly, without dyslexia, I don't think I want to go into the program that I'm at now.

I'm a graduate student at the School of Art Institute in Chicago. And without my dyslexia, I don't think I had gotten to this point. So that is my superpower to be able to create things with my hands. Yeah, that's awesome. I really admire people who can create art. I do music, and I cannot draw. I can't do anything.

And when people can do stuff like that, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're amazing. So, I just think that's, I don't know how people do it, but that's awesome. Yes. So let's talk about the book a little bit. Like what can you tell us a story? What do you want people to know about the book? So I think during COVID people were home.

John was home from college and as an art student, it's pretty hard to do art virtually what she can attest to. So. He would do a lot of art on his own, and at the same time, I was reading books to my grandchildren over FaceTime. And we sort of started throwing around the idea of, what if we wrote a children's book?

And what do we know about? Well, we certainly know about dyslexia and John's creativity. So that's how Robbie was born. We started throwing around some ideas and we came up with this story. And I have a friend who's in the publishing industry. She, she collates and, and puts together books and she thought it was an adorable book and helped us put it together.

And. Since then we've gotten such an amazing response from, from children who are dyslexic, from parents who are trying to help their child understand or help others who don't have dyslexia understand so that people can relate. Teachers have applauded, pediatricians, we've had just such a wonderful, positive response to this that we've decided to write a whole series on different neurodivergent issues.

We're in the middle of writing and illustrating, John's illustrating and writing with, together, for the next, next book, so. We're creating a whole series based on different issues. I love that. I know I say that a lot, but I just love everything you're saying. So I really appreciate that you're writing books for people to see themselves in the book, because so often, We see neurotypical people.

Like I just read this children's book that was talking about the importance of eye contact and how you're not going to have any friends if you don't make eye contact. And I was like, that is not what we need to be teaching people. We need to be teaching people how to look at differences, accept the differences and embrace them.

If someone doesn't want to give you eye contact, it doesn't mean. That they're, they don't want to hang out with you. It doesn't mean they're not listening to you. It might mean that they're actually listening to you more because they're, they're not focusing on your face. I know when I talk to people, I'm so focused on the eye contact that I don't even know what the person is saying.

So I really appreciate that you are putting neurodivergent people in books so that people can see themselves in the books and know that they're not alone. I know when my son was younger, he, he did have a vision processing disorder and he could not read. He couldn't identify letters. He cannot identify the sounds that they make.

And he knew in preschool. But he was behind his peers. And ever since that started, it started his dislike of school because he knew that he was different and the teachers just kept pushing him. They're like, well, if you practice more. Then you would get it. And they were telling him this in preschool. And so we have like all the letters up around our house.

We were practicing all the time and he just could not get it. And so I love that you are bringing this awareness to teachers and the parents that, Hey, these are some differences that might happen. And it's not for lack of trying the kid. Is not doing it because he doesn't want to or she doesn't want to it's because they literally can't and so Yes, thank you so much.

I appreciate you Let's talk about I know a lot of people have a really hard time getting diagnosed with dyslexia so can you tell us a little bit about the process to get diagnosed with dyslexia and Where you went what you did all of that. So You know back to the school. They kept saying John's just not that smart.

He's a boy. He's And they refused to test him, so we had to go out of the school system and pay for it because we knew something was up and we needed a diagnosis. So I found a wonderful person who, who did the testing and sure enough, classic dyslexic, super smart, and he just wasn't going to need to learn to read differently.

People think dyslexia is about seeing, but it's actually how your brain hears and processes it. And yes, sometimes it translates into seeing things backwards or not the same way, but it's really, it's really how your brain interprets the material that it gets. And you really need somebody who knows how to do the proper testing to do that.

And so we decided that we would get, we would make this decision and go get him tested. And once you have that label, there's a sense of relief because now we know what it is, but now what do we do? So it starts the journey. But I think without that label, you don't know what journey to start on. And so for us, the journey was how are we going to educate John, who is bright and dyslexic and has ADHD, like what's going to be the best for him?

And we found this school and we were so lucky that we did. Family, again, family decision, because it was a private school, which meant I had to drive John with, I have three, he has three older siblings. I was going to have to drive him to about. 45 minutes to an hour away each day. We had to eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly because it was a private school, but we really felt strongly that this was an important decision and we were, it was an amazing place for John.

So, yes, thank you. Are there different schools? Like, was that just the one school in that area? Do they have other locations in the country? Or are there other, what resources would you recommend to parents who get a dyslexia diagnosis? Or even where to go to get a dyslexia diagnosis, because I know that's super hard.

If your schools are supposed to do the testing, if there are any issues, but a lot of the time they just don't want to spend the money and the resources, so, so they don't. You can, my suggestion is, if you have a community, start asking. If you have a pediatrician Ask them. Start asking questions of educators.

Where can I, where can I do testing, uh, for my child if the school won't do it? They should, but if they won't. And there are different, different people can actually do educational testing. For any, for anything, and a good, a good one. We'll give that child, we'll make an assessment and give them the particular tests and come out with a diagnosis.

And that's what we did. So I would absolutely say, start asking people in your community. For us, this school, the Windward school, there's one in a community there there's there was only one, excuse me, when John started. They have another branch in Manhattan. This one was in Westchester, New York, but I don't believe at this point they have plans to go other places, but I do know that there are other communities.

And again, if you go online, I'm sure there are ways to, to find out where you might be. Go for the right education for your child, depending on whatever the diagnosis is. There are some schools that do a variety of neurodivergent issues. So again, find a community and start asking, but get the diagnosis first.

Yes, definitely get the diagnosis first and then the mom groups on Facebook are wild with the amount of information that they can give you. So I know I'm part of the Idaho Autism Moms group and you go on there and there's like 50 people that will answer your question. So if there's like dyslexic groups, ADHD groups, there's all the different groups and the moms are more than willing to give you information.

So that is a great place to start. And of course your pediatrician can give you the tools that you need, but I have actually found that the moms in my area have more resources than the pediatrician has. So they know more about what's going on in the area than the pediatrician does. And it's just kind of interesting, but definitely ask everywhere around.

I love that you said that. So are there any other resources that you would recommend to kids or parents or anyone with dyslexia?

Go ahead, Johnny. Actually, the only thing I'll just briefly say is one of the things I remember quite a great deal is seeing my mom with a book. I'm blanking on the exact title, but it was a book about how to handle a child with dyslexia. And she'd spend hours at night reading that, trying to figure out the little details.

And that that's another reason why I say we'll take time on both parties sides of things. Now with the internet, you can find out all sorts of things from proper sources and books are still an option. Yes. Books are a great option. I, I listen to books cause I don't have, I just fell asleep when I read.

And so Audible is my friend, but yes, you can get books. Um, you can read them, listen to them, listen to podcasts. Like there's a wealth of information. So thank you. What were you going to say, Lynn? No, I was, I was just going to sort of reiterate what John was going to say. I think community is important and, and the more you talk about things and the more you ask questions, the more answers you get, and then you refine to what you think is the best choice for your child.

And sometimes the first one. It may not be the, the rightest one, and then you segue into something else, but it's good to, to, to do the answer, the questioning and then, and start somewhere. That's a good source for your child. Yeah. Just start and you can always change the path that you're going on. Like when you get more information, you can do different things.

Absolutely. Yeah. Where can people find you online to look up your books, find more information, all that?

Johnny, you want, or you want, should I go ahead? So here's our book, Robbie, and you can, we now actually have it translated into Spanish. You can certainly go on Amazon and find it. We have a website, creative cab company. We have Instagram and Facebook, same creative cab company. You can find us there. DM us, go to the website and email us.

All the information is there. We really love to. Talk to people and reach out and, and talk to everybody. It's been really a journey for us. And we're always happy to hear about people who, who are on the same journey. And so those are the ways you can find us. Those are the places you can buy the book. Um, so we really encourage everyone to, to reach out.

And say hello. Yes, definitely reach out. I love it when people reach out to like us on the podcast, you just see what people think and how you're affecting their lives that yes. And our last question is what do you do for fun? Well, even though it's what I'm trying to do as a career, I, I do a lot of art in my free time, painting, drawing, doodling, and I do like to read now, uh, the, the ability that I was given by.

All of the help I've gotten over the years and the effort I put into it has bore fruit and that I am a huge fan of just reading in general. It's a, it's a very important pastime for me now. Awesome. I love it. That is a testament to all the hard work that you did. Your teachers did, your parents did, all of it.

I love it. Yeah, no, he's, he's amazing. And we, I have. Three grandchildren and the nieces, niece and nephews to John and our oldest, my oldest grandchild idolizes John. They all love him, but he wants to do everything John does. John likes Legos. So he does Legos. John likes to draw. He wanted to be enrolled in an art class.

So I think it's really important. Family is really important to us. I also like to cook and to garden and spend time with friends, but. You know, for us, we have a pretty big family and spending time together is, is really one of my favorite things to do. So that's what I do on my spare time and talk to lovely people like you.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you guys came on the show. You have been amazing. I know there are. So many parents that have messaged us and said, we need tools for dyslexia. We need to know where to go. We need to know what to do. And so I really appreciate both of your time coming on the show today. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having us. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. Thanks. Well, Lauren, what were the highlights? A few, I really appreciate that. I should have mentioned that was a family decision. Very big on family, family decision, having that input and what's going to be best for not only him, but for the family as a whole as well.

And so again, like family, that family unit and making sure that everyone's on the same page is always really important, important and helpful. I really need, and this is just a reminder, uh, we talk about how we don't. Want our kids to have labels for multiple reasons. And one of them that she brought up is that a lot of times parents do you like their kids as an extension of themselves.

And we've talked about this multiple times. Like when you were younger, you love sports and doing all this and being active and like your kids want nothing to do with that. And again, that's like really hard as a parent and to like mourn those. Types of things and those expectations that you had, but it's just really important to remember that they're their own person and they have their own quirks and whatever that might be and strengths and weaknesses and to just whatever those strengths are and differences and just.

Like, support it and embrace it and see where it can take you. I'm, I'm seeing a trend again. Like we don't usually have a whole bunch of people on here specifically to talk about dyslexia, but we had one before Michael. I'm not going to say, yeah, but sure. And I can't remember, but it sounds like they're a common superpower is that creative.

Outlet of art and creating visual art and things like that. And I think that's amazing because I'm very appreciative of art. You mentioned that too. And so I, I think that's amazing. And I think for parents out there, you're like, what do I do with my kid? Maybe focus on that art route and see, because it seems to be a common thing.

So maybe let's focus on. On that as, as an option to see where those benefits and superpowers might blo blossom from. That might be a really good starting point, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And then I, I really like, uh, and we talk about this a bunch too, and Jonathan mentioned like, give us the benefit of the doubt.

Like we're not, we're trying our best, we're not doing things and not trying because we don't want to, or we're lazy. Like they really are. These kids really are. Trying their best and then something I want to say, I feel like we're giving teachers a bad rep sometime. And I wanted, I just want people to know that like we appreciate the teachers.

There's plenty of wonderful teachers. And we know a lot of times you don't make the rules and the budgets and there's a lot of admin things that contribute to stuff. But we appreciate the teachers that listen and, and can come up with ideas and things like that to help 'cause it, it, it is a hard job and you have lots of students and we know that there are plenty of great, great ones out there.

So I just wanted to just give a shout out to the teachers that are doing their best and trying, but a lot of times it, it's kind of up to that admin to make sure that they have the resources they need and or getting them to them into like the trainings that they may need and just. Just like the education in general just needs to kind of broaden its horizons and, and know that there are so many different ways to learn and we should kind of be looking into those more often than I think we currently are as a educational system.

Yeah. Those are my takes. Yeah. I definitely don't blame teachers. Like I do not know how. They can teach as many students as they do, and then to have the IEPs and have to be thinking about that, like, I think teachers are amazing, and I know that sometimes, like you said, we might seem like we're like, oh, they're not doing a good job, but I think they are doing their best.

And they have a super hard job, especially when you have like one kid with dyslexia, one kid that might be neurotypical, but like learns a different way. One kid with an autism, one kid with ADHD, one kid with Down syndrome, like they all have different needs. And even if the kids are neurotypical, they still have different needs and different things.

And so, yes. Props to teachers because I don't want to do it. And I'm glad they do. Yeah. Like there, I mean, just like in any place, there are going to be some bad apples and stuff, but like, I know in my heart that you guys are doing your best and your hands are tied and a lot of different places. And you don't necessarily get to make, make certain decisions.

And so I just wanted to make sure that we're giving them some, some love. Because it is a really, really hard job. So yes, yes, for sure. So thank you to all the teachers and thank you to all the principals and all those things. I know at my kid's school, like they try their best. They try so hard and.

Sometimes it's just that they don't have the training. They don't even know, they don't know what they don't know. So they're just doing their best. Yeah, exactly. They don't know what they don't know. And then again, that was kind of one of the last things you said, like when, when you find more information and you need to pivot whatever route you're going, like that's okay again.

Get the information as it comes and move you better in, in certain circumstances. Again, you only know what you know, but yeah, once you get more information, go from there. Yeah, for sure. So thank you everyone for listening this week. We really appreciate you listening and let us know what you thought of the episode.

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