65 - Dr. Candace Holmes and Neurofeedback 21/10/24

Dr. Holmes was frustrated with the limited options to help her daughter with ADHD beyond medication. After seeing her daughter's transformation with BrainCore Neurofeedback Therapy, she became passionate about promoting natural approaches to mental health and wellness challenges. Now, she is on a mission to educate the public and empower individuals to take control of their mental health.

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TRANSCRIPTION

This podcast is for parents like you, navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. I'm a neurodivergent mother of three amazing neurodivergent children and a board certified music therapist. Our mission is to create a supportive space where you feel understood, connected, and inspired.

With practical tips, strategies, and resources, we'll help you and your child thrive in your unique way. Join us as we dive deep into the diverse world of neurodivergent individuals exploring topics like ADHD, autism, dyslexia, sensory processing challenges, and more. We'll cover it all to empower, educate, and uplift both neurodivergent individuals and those who walk alongside them.

Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you. We are your hosts, Samantha Futt and Lauren Ross, and this is the Every Brain is Different podcast.

Welcome to the Every Brain is Different podcast. We're here with Dr. Candice Holmes. And Dr. Holmes was frustrated with the limited options to help her daughter with ADHD beyond medication. After seeing her daughter's transformation with brain core neurofeedback therapy, she became passionate about promoting natural approaches to mental health and wellness challenges.

Now she is on a mission to educate the public and empower individuals to take control of their mental health. Dr. Holmes, welcome to the show. We are so happy to have you on. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you're involved in the neurodivergent community?

Sure. So my oldest daughter was diagnosed with ADHD when she was seven. And I was trying to find a solution for her that didn't involve medications. Um, my doctorate is in chiropractic, so we try to stay away from them as often as possible. And there weren't a lot of options out there, um, besides just, um, talk therapy.

And so, um, years went on and I stumbled upon neurofeedback. Um, through one of the chiropractic magazines that I frequent, and noninvasive with results that can last up to 30 years. And what is that? And it said ADHD, anxiety, depression, like, what is that? And so I called and found out about it and, um, The one of the, um, the founder is from, uh, he was one of my former chiropractic professors and, um, he was, you know, in your school, you have a peer that's just so brilliant.

They can teach you better than the professor can, or the teacher can, because they just know how to let you understand, make you understand it. He was that guy. And when I was in chiropractic school, so, um, he was trying to find a solution at that time for his nephew who has, uh, Asperger's. And, um, I was like, wait a minute, if he, you know, founded this and something has to be something to it.

So that's how I started off. And my daughter just went from struggling and doing so well and how many other people don't even know this exists. And so I added to my practice and that's my goal is to let other people know, like, there are other options out there. Yeah, that's amazing. Can you tell us a little bit more about what neurofeedback is?

Because I have heard of it before, but I don't know exactly what it is. It's quite common. It's quite common. So neurofeedback is a modality. So it's a therapy that helps to retrain how your brain functions. It's a computer based program, and it's totally objective, which is something that I was looking forward to using.

Because, and when it all comes down to it, I'm a scientist. I like to see data. You know, so, um, what happens is the first step is to get what's called a brain mapping. That's done in the office and the patient wears a cap that has sensors on it. That is a functional assessment of how the brain is. So, after that's done, it takes about an hour or so, then a report comes out and based upon that report is, um, ranges of protocols that are available to help correct the areas of the brain that aren't functioning well.

And so then you do that by training sessions. So those are done at home. Um, do you just wearing a sensors on your scalp that are pasted there? Um, again, non invasive, so it doesn't hurt. And you're connected to a PC and you're watching something on a streaming device. Let's say, you know, The popular ones, I don't know if I can say their names or not, but you're watching a television show or a movie for 30 minutes.

During that time, when your brain is in the frequencies that we're trying to help, you'll see what you're watching like you regularly would. It's bright and you hear it well, but when your brain starts going to that dysfunctional pattern, which is the reason why, you know, we're having this therapy performed, then the screen will start to fade and the volume goes down.

And that's a signal to your brain. Hey, you know, Um, you know, when you're back to where you're supposed to be. So neurofeedback is a sophisticated form of biofeedback. So that's the biofeedback part of it. So when you're looking at the screen, it's almost an instantaneous representation of where your brain is or how your brain is functioning at that moment.

And so it's very simple. It's very easy. Um, I've had, uh, patients who are so frustrated because their movie wasn't over, you know, in 30 minutes, they wanted to continue. I'm like, no, no, no, we have to stop. You know, let your brain rest, change and adapt, and then we'll come back like four hours later and we'll continue.

So, um, it's, it's, um. It's a life changing therapy. So I'm just I'm thankful that I'm able to offer it. Yeah, that's amazing Is there an age like that? You have to be before you can do neurofeedback. Yes, typically the youngest patients We work with our five years and older it's rare that you'll find four year old who's mature enough to sit for 30 minutes at a time to watch something.

Um, even if they, if it's something that they love, it's still some rarity. So typically it's five years of age and up. And it's not just for children, it's for adults. You know, I use it for stress relief. Um, my dad is one of my patients. He uses it. He had, I can't even name how many concussions he had. He played football in college, you know, back then there were, there was no baseline for concussions.

It was just, you know, smelling salts and how many fingers, okay, get back out there. And what I realized, he told me years ago, there was no offense or defense. You played the whole game, there was no coming out, you just, you just kept going. So, he was having memory challenges, and he no longer has those challenges.

That's amazing. So it can help with autism, ADHD, um, concussions, anxiety, PTSD, migraines. It's, it's, there's so many, there's so many uses for it. Um, it was first originally, uh, found to help those with epilepsy. So to decrease their seizures. And so, um, it's like, wow, it's just, you name it is the most likely, I mean, everything starts in the brain.

So that's, that's the best way I can describe it. Everything starts in the brain. Yeah, I was just talking to a neurologist about that yesterday that my son started having migraines and he was and he was having like just these intense meltdowns that he hasn't had for a long time and all of a sudden he started having these like crazy meltdowns and his personality would totally change and he's like, yeah, cuz everything starts in the brain.

And so if his brain is not okay, Then it's going to show outwardly like that his brain is not okay. So man, I think I need to get my son in because he has concussions, epilepsy, ADHD, and autism. He said one summer he got four concussions in one summer. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was. His cousins played rough, so he didn't get to play with those cousins for a while after that.

Making a change. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, and we're done with you for a little bit. Love you. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So can you tell us like some of the things that people can expect from getting neurofeedback? Like, what are the outward things that can, that we can see? Okay. Sure, so my patients have experienced like my autism patients, they have better emotional regulation.

I had a patient who, um, she's 14 at the time and she had a really short fuse, especially when changes occurred and, um, now with autistic brains, it takes a little while longer for the brain to make those kind of changes with the neuroplasticity that, and so, um, It was around that time that I asked her mom, you know, what was going on?

You think any changes? She said, well, you know, she was, um, had to bring her from her room. So she came downstairs and I had to tell her that something changed. And, um, she said, she's always prepared herself for world war three is what she called it. And so her daughter instead, after using my therapy said, okay, turned around and went back upstairs.

She said, my jaw just. Like what just happened or what didn't just happen, you know? So emotional regulation, uh, with my daughter focusing attention, she was struggling so much. I didn't think she'd go to college. And, um, after using your feedback now, she's a junior and she is studying to be an environmental chemist and she's always on the president's list and the Dean's list.

Um, so the social awkwardness went away. And, um, Didn't take her as long to take to homework. It used to take like five hours a night to do homework. That's when she was in high school and after the therapy took her like two and a half to three migraines. Like you mentioned, I had one patient with migraines every day.

And then after using my therapy, those went away. And then she had what I call a positive side effect, which is she was taking some classes. And she was able to read her homework and you read a paragraph and then answer the questions directly instead of having to go back. What was that I read or what was that again?

What do they need to know? And she's like, Oh, my gosh, I'm finishing my homework so much faster. Now I have more time to spend with my kids, you know, instead of, you know, everybody has homework and everybody's, you know, studying and trying to get that done in the house as opposed to, you know, enjoying each other and having that family time.

Um, let's see. I had a patient who, uh, also had anxiety with, uh, ADHD and she was like, Dr. Holmes, I used to go, you know, I go out with my girlfriends, you know, every month. And it's so hard for me to focus on that one person in front of me because everything that's going on in the background, she said, but after this therapy, she said, it's like, my brain said, nope.

Get back, get right here. And she said, it's like, it's like a, it's like a click. And I was like, Oh, it's like, it's like a click. It's just like, Nope, like focus right here. Um, I also have a patient who had, um, one, one patient's mom had a frontal temporal dementia at 50. And she said, um, Dr. Holmes said, I don't know.

My mom doesn't even know how to operate a microwave oven, and I don't want my son to have to take care of me, like my brother and I to take care of my mom. And so that patient was 29 at the time, and she said even at 29 she was noticing that she was, um, forgetting numbers and, and, and, um, words and, and just taking more time to finish tasks at work.

And so she was doing it as a preventative method to make sure that her brain, it's only 50 percent chance that my brain will get that. But I just want to make sure, you know, let's stave it off as much as we can. And so she went from that kind of a concern to like, I'm on it. She's everything like just, you know, firing on all cylinders.

I get the numbers. I write them down. I remember I do all the tasks and this work is easier. Um, so those are just a few of the, a few of the great ones. Yeah, that sounds nice. And another one tell autism, uh, excuse. So had one patient who had, uh, he said had about 20 stems a day, and his were like this. And so, um, you know, stems occur as a, it's a form of anxiety, so that's how they calm themselves down.

And so he went from 20 stems a day prior to working with me to one or two a week. He's like, wow, verbal. And he even used the letter board. He's like, Dr. Holmes. Oh my gosh. Like just that one thing like this has just changed my entire life. And I'm just, it just brought tears to my eyes because I can't imagine just being so, you know, wound up like that every day.

And then to finally, you know, have some calm. Yeah, that's amazing. Do you work with kids? I'm sure you do with, uh, pathological demand avoidance or PDA. I have not personally worked with them, but there are certain aspects of almost every, uh, challenge that, um, there are layers to it, you know, there are layers.

Yeah. Yeah. So I just didn't know if there was. Specific things you did with them? 'cause I know it's, you know, there's a lot of anxiety, so I'm sure if you work with anxiety, like it would help them too. So, yeah. I've had had a patient who brought her, well the mom brought the patient, the patient was a child.

Um, dyslexia was so a learning difference. And when we did the brain mapping, anxiety was, was higher on, uh, the, was higher up on the importance list of what to address first. Then the anxiety, and I'm sorry, anxiety was higher than learning disorder. And she's like, no, no, no, we need to get to the dyslexia.

I'm like, no, this is why we did this test. But I can't look at him and say, oh, you know, it's dyslexia. Oh, it's anxiety. And so, um, I get this. Example, I said, if the house is on fire, are you just focusing on the kitchen, or are you going to get the whole house and then get in, you know, so, um, even though you may see some symptoms that are more prevalent, um, there, there is an order, like with my daughter, ADHD, that category was the first one, and anxiety was her secondary, depression was the tertiary.

So it's like, you know, layers of an onion. So address the first and then you get Deeper to the core or go out. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Um, so how would you like, if someone comes to you, how long should they expect to work with you or how long is it programmed? Does it just depend on how many things they need to work on?

Yes. That's why we use brain mapping because everybody's different. Every, every brain is different. Yeah. Yeah. That's in a nutshell. Every brain is different. So, my program start off at 4 weeks and they can go up to 20 weeks and they can go even beyond that. I'm just depending upon where you are. I've had patients who finished my 20 week programs and they get their, um, we always have follow up brain mappings.

So you can see the progress and they're like, okay, doc, I want to, I just want to keep on going. I'm like, okay, like, you've been doing this for 20 weeks, like. Let's just take a break. Let's just take a break. I mean, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I said, but you know, let's live life, you know, let's live life for a little bit.

So I think it was the summer was coming up at that time. I said, let's just take a break over the summer. You just enjoy your summer and then we'll get back to it, you know, when the fall comes. And so that's what she did. So a lot of it, um, can depend on what the goals are of that individual or that family.

Yeah, that makes sense. Um, so when they're in the program, do they just do this every day? Or is it like, I know they do have the homework that they do at home. Do they do it every day? They do it every day. So my program, the goal is to complete 2 sessions a day. Those are 2 30 minute sessions. So, depending upon, you know, your age and what your schedule is, um, you know, as some patients who, um, complete a 30 minute session, you know, in the morning before they go to school or, you know, directly after they get back from school or activities and then right before they go to bed.

You just have to have four hours in between to make sure that your brain has time to rest. Change and adapt. Um, I've had some parents who woke their children up early. I don't recommend that. Wake him up because a lot of us don't get enough sleep as it is, but Hey, that's your schedule. And that's what I love about my programs and why I offer it this way is because you get better faster because you're able to complete more training sessions based on your schedule, not based on mine.

You have to worry if I'm in the office or not. And, and you know, again, with my programs, it's national. So it's not just people who are in Georgia. So, you know, if you're up at nine o'clock at night and you're in California, guess what? You can break out your system and and complete a training session. I tell people if you're I have a lot of patients who have insomnia as well.

And I'm like, well, if you're going to be up anyway, might as well, you know, train your brain while wherever you're going to watch one as well. Put it on the screen, you know, and then connect yourself. So at least your brain is working for you at this time to try to get you and your brain to get to the place where you can get to that deep levels of sleep.

Yeah, that's amazing. Um, so when you do the brain mapping, do you send them the stuff to do it with? And then they put every, how does that work? Just tell me how it works. For my patients who are getting brain mappings outside of Georgia, then I connect them with one of my colleagues and they get that all done in their office.

And then after that's completed, then they send the results to me, just like if someone had gone out for blood work. So I'll get the results. And, um, then I go over the report with them and then the program that I recommend based upon what the brain mapping, uh, reports states. Okay. Cool. Yeah. So anyone in the United States can work with you.

And I used to say, except for Hawaii and Alaska, and then I've connected with a office in Hawaii. And so I'm like, I can say Hawaii, and it's so, so nice to work on Alaska, but, but, uh, yeah. And Hawaii. Yes. Cool. Cool. Um, yeah, that's amazing. So I need to go to Hawaii just to, you know, yeah, the lay of the land, you know, do a little research and I've not been yet.

So I think, yeah. I need to do that just to Yeah, I think you do. Like I went to Hawaii for the first time last week and it's amazing. I loved it there. Yeah. Just last week. So where can people find you if they'd like to work with you? Sure. They can find me on, um, I'm on Instagram, brain Corps of Duluth. Um, my website, I mean, it's, yeah, I'm kind of all over and I've written a book about, uh, neurofeedback as well.

Mm-Hmm. just to, um. Okay. And again, make people more aware, which is one of my goals. So. Phone number. It's everything. Nice. Nice. Everywhere. And do you have any resources that, um, that you recommend for people? I know you have your book and then you also have an online quiz that people can take. I do. I do.

And on my website as well. There's another link for other research articles that are geared towards specific conditions. So if you want to look at how does neurofeedback relate to autism that's on there or ADHD that's on there or, you know, trouble sleeping that's on there. So it's, um. It's a all encompassing there too.

Awesome. Awesome. And our last question is what do you do for fun? Ooh, okay. Goodness. I was just talking to my oldest daughter the other day. I love to roller skate and I haven't done it in a while. And so she said, mommy, she went to roller skating party a couple of days ago. And I said, I need to get another pair of skates.

And another person suggested I get two sets of wheels. So, um, I love to roller skate because it's like, I get to listen to the music of my youth and just, you know, groove and glide and then get some exercise in. And, um, I'm going to get the outdoors wheels too, so I can go outside and do that and get the fresh air and the vitamin D, which of course, you know, is great for mental health.

So that's what I'm into. I love fine dining. I love concerts. I love, I love doing a lot of things. Just, I love to be out and about. That's, that's me. That's awesome. You're always busy. I'm like, I'm busy. Like, like in a good way. Like, I like, like to see what's going on. I don't necessarily like to sit still all the time.

Yeah, I love it. That's actually how we were in Hawaii. I think this is funny. All I wanted to do was go to the beach and sit on the beach and just chill. And we were there for 10 minutes. After three days of being in Hawaii and seeing all the different things, we went to the beach and my mom was like, this is boring.

We need to go do something. And I'm like, what are you talking about? So then her and my sisters and my niece went out and they were in the ocean and they were playing and I was just chilling, doing what I wanted to do. And my mom could not let me sit there. She was like, come, come be with us. Come be with us.

You can't be by yourself. And she, cause she can't sit still, you know? And I was like, I just want to sit here and just. Chill for a little bit, you know, and I think I always blame my dad because, uh, I love him. And I, and I feel like I got it from him growing up. It's like, do you ever say you were bored or, you know, Oh, have you done this?

Have you done that? You can be doing this, you're doing that. And I, I ended up doing that with my children. And then I remembered like, wait a minute, like resting is essential. Like that is part of the recovery. It's recovery, you know? And so. Yeah. Um, I was like, it was like Friday, mom, what are we going to do this weekend?

I said, we're going to rest this weekend. That's what we're going to do. We're going to rest. Like, I'm going to go grab a pizza, come here. We'll go. And that's how I think it was Redbox or something. We'll get a movie, put the CD in, and we're just going to, just going to enjoy this time of rest. Yeah. I mean, you're bringing that, you know, so the balance is the balance.

Yes. I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been so amazing and I am definitely going to get my kids involved in neurofeedback to see what changes that can bring because it sounds amazing. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me again. Thank you. Yeah.

Well, Lauren, what did you think? I'm very fascinated by this. Um, I feel like a lot of things like this are coming up. Um, I'm, I'm thinking back to, uh, Stephen Gellin and his Skywalker game, kind of doing similar things. And then I recently just had a coworker, um, send me links to, uh, a place here locally that, you know, Um, it's transcranial magnetic something.

Um, it's more specifically for like depression type things, but, um, I think things like this are going to slowly start being more and more prevalent and I'm excited with the technology to see where it all goes. Yeah, exactly. I wish that. Insurance would pay for these things, because that's what's holding, I think, a lot of people back is that insurance will pay for medication, but they won't pay for what's called experimental therapies, um, which is unfortunate, like music therapy is a non traditional therapy, so insurance won't pay for it in a lot of states.

Some states it will, but like neurofeedback insurance won't pay for it. I know. And I know some of them though, like if you have a health savings account or like a health, like flex spending thing, like you can use that for some of these things. Um, but yeah, it is unfortunate that insurance hasn't like caught on with it because I think it could be really, really beneficial.

And I know like, there's no shame in medication, but medication doesn't always work for everybody. And some people just like, do not like, The effects, um, that can come with that. And so I think that these are really great alternatives, especially, you know, if it's effective, um, it sounds like she specifically had a lot of, uh, success and this, and so.

I think it's fun, new technology and how they, like, I don't understand the science behind it, like watching a screen and then based on what's going on your brain, it's like going to black out. Like, that's super, super cool. I don't understand how that happens, but I think that's cool. And the same with, um, the Skywalker program or game, like how that, that works.

Like, it's very fascinating and I'm intrigued by all of it. Awesome. Yeah, I definitely want to get my kids involved in neurofeedback. I've heard about it, but I never knew the benefits of it. I never knew how it worked. And so in Idaho, the family direct budget will pay for neurofeedback. And so they're, my kids, uh, redetermination is coming up.

So, we're gonna put that on their budget, because it sounds like a good idea. Especially, like, with my one son who does have epilepsy, and autism, and ADHD, and concussions, like, it could probably help him out a lot. Yeah. Or at least with one of those things, maybe. Yeah. And maybe cut down on the medication he's taking.

So, and also like, if you are taking medication, I know there's an ADHD shortage, you know, like medication shortage. And so if you were doing these things, it might help. So you wouldn't need the medication and keep having to take it. And then if there's a shortage, then what do you do? You know? Yeah. So that happens.

So yeah. Yeah. I think, I think the more alternatives and the more options people have. That's always best. Um, and again, everything's different and everyone's going to respond to different things. And so when we can have a wide variety, whether it be, you know, typical talk therapy or medication or neurofeedback or whatever it might be.

Um, it can only be good things in my opinion, like beneficial. Um, if you're going to legit places, I'm sure there's scams out there, but, um, I'm, I'm, I'm excited to see. This become more popular. And, and talk about more. Yeah, just more options because every brain is different. So. Exactly. Well, thank you all for listening this week.

Once again, let us know what you think of the show. Give us some feedback. What do you want to hear on the show and rate and review us. That would be amazing. And we will see you all next week. Thank you for listening to this episode. We hope the discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with some insight.

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