47 - Andrea Pollack and Mastering Your Self-Regulation 17/06/24

Navigating parenthood when your child is neurodivergent can be an overwhelming journey, often leaving parents feeling unprepared and uncertain about how to support their child best! Join Samantha as she speaks with Andrea Pollack about understanding the reasons behind children's behaviors. Andrea's expertise enables parents to achieve lasting results without enduring years of trial and error! Stay tuned!

Here's what to expect on the podcast:

• The importance of self-regulation for parents in challenging situations.

• How can parents better understand the underlying reasons behind their children's behaviors?

• Andrea motivates parents to choose a supportive approach over punishment.

• Setting children up for success by meeting them where they are.

• And much more!

About Andrea:

Andrea Pollack is a mom of two adult children, a former lawyer in New York City, and an advocate for parents of autistic and other neuro-divergent children. When her autistic son was not thriving at school, Andrea left her 19-year law career to homeschool him. She later went on to earn her Master’s in Education so that she could most effectively help parents get swift and lasting results without years of trial and error. Now, with years of experience and research under her belt, Andrea is sharing her wisdom with the world through Autism Parent Solutions.

Connect with Andrea Pollack!

Website: https://autismparentsolutions.com/

Email: [email protected]

Facebook Community: https://web.facebook.com/groups/autismparentsoluti…

Connect with Samantha Foote!

Website: www.boisemusictherapycompany.com

Email: [email protected]

Consultation: https://letsmeet.io/boisemusictherapycompany/30-mi…

TRANSCRIPTION

Are you feeling overwhelmed by your child's unique needs? Wondering how to turn daily challenges into moments of growth? Discover answers at the Neurodiversity in Harmony, a Summit for Empowered Parenting, coming on September 13, 2024. Join us for a day filled with expert insights and real life stories from professionals and parents alike.

All dedicated to autism, ADHD, and other neurodivergent diagnoses. Learn about innovative, positive parenting strategies, and gain a deeper understanding of how to support your child's unique journey. Connect with a community that understands and shares your experiences. Whether you're seeking new strategies or some reassurance, this summit is your gateway to an empowered parenting approach.

Seats are limited, so don't miss out. Join our waitlist now to receive exclusive updates and registration details. Visit www. boisimusictherapycompany. com today to secure your spot. Embrace the journey of neurodiverse parenting with us. This podcast is for parents like you, navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion.

I'm a neurodivergent mother of three amazing neurodivergent children and a board certified music therapist. Our mission is to create a supportive space where you feel understood, connected, and inspired. With practical tips, strategies, and resources, we'll help you and your child thrive in your unique way.

Join us as we dive deep into the diverse world of neurodivergent individuals, exploring topics like ADHD, autism, dyslexia, sensory processing challenges, and more. We'll cover it all to empower, educate, and uplift both neurodivergent individuals and those who walk alongside them. Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated.

We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you. We are your hosts, Samantha Fuh and Lauren Ross, and this is the Every Brain is Different podcast. Welcome to the every brain is different podcast. We're here with Andrea Pollock and Andrea is a mom of two adult children, a former lawyer in New York city and an advocate for parents of autistic and other neurodivergent children.

When her autistic son was not thriving at school, Andrea left her 19 year law degree, law degree, law career to homeschool him. She later went on to earn her master's in education so that she could most effectively help parents get swift and lasting results without years of trial and error. Now, with years of experience and research under her belt, Andrea is sharing her wisdom with the world through autism parent solutions.

Andrea, we are so excited to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about your journey and how you're involved in the neurodivergent community? Sure. Well, as you mentioned, I have a son. He's now 25. Um, but when he was four, I pulled him out of school and homeschooled him because at that time, there really weren't, there wasn't a place that was really, um, appropriate for him where we lived.

Um, fortunately, I think now there are a lot more places that accommodate more kinds of children, but, uh, I wound up homeschooling him for eight years. Which was longer than I expected when I started, uh, and when he was ready to go back to school, I really didn't want all that I had learned to go to waste.

I really felt like parents were each home alone, struggling in a different way, and then when their children moved on, they moved on to something else, and I thought, what a waste of all that learning, and I really wanted to share it with other parents. Yeah, that's awesome. I love it. Um, can you just give us, um, strategies that maybe you most recommend for parents?

Sure, absolutely. Um, the first thing, uh, is really about learning how to self regulate in challenging situations because, you know, we don't really learn about self regulation. It's just a skill that we develop sort of behind the scenes as we're growing up, but we don't really talk that much about it except in relation to our children.

And when we're triggered, um, it, it makes it very difficult for us to regulate, which then it makes it very difficult for us to help our children regulate. So really learning to pay attention to our own regulation is important. And what's really important about that too is it's not about like stuffing your feelings.

I don't advocate for that at all. I want everybody to feel all the feelings, but it's about choices we make in the moment to get the best outcome for everyone in the moment. So focusing on your own self regulation and modeling that, understanding that it's a skill, it's part of what we can teach our children.

That would be where I would start. Yeah, I think that's amazing because if you can't regulate yourself when your child becomes dysregulated, you're not going to be able to help your child regulate, especially if like, you're neurodivergent, your child's neurodivergent, and you're different kinds of neurodivergent.

So for example, my kids are sensory seeking. They are always like going out, you know, hitting stuff and want loud music. And they're just always sensory seeking. And I am more of a sensory avoider. And so I get so overstimulated by them that I have to learn how to regulate myself. So when inevitably they get too.

Stimulated because they get really excited. Then they start crying because they hurt each other or something. And then I get mad because I was like, I told you this was going to happen, you know, so I have to learn to regulate myself and know when I'm at my limit so that I can maybe step away or I can help them not be so overstimulating to me.

And I just think that's amazing. And I like what you said about not stuffing your feelings down, because that does. For example, I know someone who stuffs his feelings down and then one day he just explodes and it's just so out of character. You're like, what is happening right now? Like you never do this.

You're so quiet. And then he just like explodes and yells and gets it out of his system. And then he stuffs everything down deep again. And then. You know, it builds up and then he explodes again. And I just don't think that that's the most healthy thing to do. No, no, no. But you know, when you don't learn about self regulation skills, you, you feel like your only choice is either to like express it or stop it.

So I really help parents understand the nuances in between and really how to allow for their feelings and their feelings are okay. I mean, just like what we say to our children, right? The feelings are all okay. It's what we do with them. Yes. That we want to really manage. So it's really the same for them.

And I just want to go back to one thing you said that was so great, because, you know, you started out way ahead of things, because what you're saying is you're recognizing that some of your children's actions is because of dysregulation. So even that is a step that I often like to help parents see, because sometimes they see their children get You know, acting in a particular way, and they make up things, they make up stories about why that's happening.

And they're not thinking it's dysregulation, they think maybe it's disobedience, they think it's, you know, All kinds of things, but really understanding that source of a lot of those actions is this regulation changes how we address it too. So you, like you started on third base there. So I just, how great that was.

So, yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good thing to remember that all behavior has. a reason for it. There's like, we don't do anything just to do it. You know, um, like we don't go out and just do something just because we feel like it. There's a reason why we're doing it. And the same as with children, like children don't do things just to be disobedient.

They're not trying to be disobedient. They're trying to get a need met. And so if you can figure out that need, that's where I start with parents is learning to understand The behavior of their child, like, are they looking for attention or connection with you? You know, they say, well, my kid just does naughty things all day.

And I'm like, well, what do you do when they do those things? Do you give them a lot of attention for that? Cause maybe they're looking for a connection with you and they just want to feel connected. And they notice that when they do this naughty thing, that's when you show them the most attention, you know?

And so that's what, um, I've noticed a lot, even with my kids is they just. If I'm not paying attention to them or I'm not connecting with them, and I don't like attention seeking, that's like a behavioral term, you know, but it really is connection seeking. They're seeking to connect with you, to be, to make a relationship with you.

And they will do that in however, whatever way they can do it. It's. They don't understand like positive attention and negative attention. It's just, they notice, Hey, my mom talks to me when I do this. So I'm going to do this. Exactly. Well, what you're talking about is also very directly related to the issue of, um, understanding your own regulation, right?

Because it does help you to regulate. When you realize your child's doing the best they can in the moment, and that if they're seeking connection, there's another way to help them find that connection, right? But it's not because they're being disobedient on purpose, right? So those, what you're talking about and really understanding the why is something we also address because it, it does help parents learn to stay regulated, right?

Because it's less triggering. If you think they're intentionally, you know, doing something naughty to get under your skin, They get under your skin. If you can look at it differently, uh, it does help you find solutions. Yeah, for sure. I've noticed that too, when my kids are just, they have a lot of anxiety based things.

And so when they like, they're defiant, because they're nervous to do something and they don't know how to do it. And so they're just, They just say, no, I'm not doing that. Or they shut down. I used to get very upset and be like, why are you being so defiant? Like this doesn't make sense. And then I realized that it's anxiety based and they are just nervous.

They go into fight or flight mode when I asked them to do that thing. And once I realized that I was like, okay, how can I help you get this done? Because this needs to get done and you need to do it. I will help you through it. But we need to figure out how to get that done. And I'm before I just be like, get it done now, or this is going to happen.

You know, I would use punishment and I'm like, punishment does not work because that's not meeting their need. It's just creating something that's more negative. And so if you can find once again, the reason for their behavior and meet that need, then they're going to have better behavior just automatically.

Yep. And then that's the second thing, you know, in addition to the self regulation piece and understanding the why, which I think are connected is then continuing with understanding the why is about setting them up for success, right? Because when we ask them to do something that's too far above, What they're able to do in the moment.

That's what you're talking about, right? That's when you're set down or they have they're dysregulated. It looks like defiance, but it's really just they can't, you know, meet that expectation. So how do we meet them where they are to set them up for success? And then we help them grow the skills that they need step by step.

We don't grow their skills by setting the bar so high that they can't do it. They'll just continue to keep missing the bar. Yeah, yeah. What you're describing is exactly, it's setting them up for success by meeting them where they are and helping them to build those skills to meet that bar. Yeah. So how do you help parents, what would you say to parents That they are told to use punishment.

They're told that punishment works. You, your child is very naughty. You just need to use punishment. That is such a big one. Um, you know, what I say is, first of all, if we're able to see our children's behavior as an unmet need, as you said, or a, an undeveloped skill, right? They can't do it in the moment for whatever reason.

Um. then punishment isn't going to meet the need or build the skill. So we're targeting the wrong problem if we, if we punish. So that's where I start. Parents sometimes say, well, yeah, but sometimes when I yell at my children, they put their socks on. And I say to that, yes, sometimes punishment does work in the very short term, but it doesn't feel good to anyone, right?

Doesn't feel good to parent, doesn't feel good to children. And it doesn't help them learn how to put their socks on by themselves in the moment. It doesn't help identify what's the problem. Why aren't they able to do that in a moment without the yelling? If we can identify a way to help them do that.

Then we don't have to yell every day. Otherwise, you're gonna have to yell every day because you're not building, you're not filling the unmet need or building the skill. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I love that. That's so true. Um, it's all about meeting the needs of people. Like, if you think about, Like I think about adults and we don't do things because of punishment.

Like we might do something that someone wants us to do if there's a threat of punishment, but that doesn't mean we're going to carry that skill throughout life, where if we meet, haven't made a need. That's met, then we can better able do the things that we need to do. So, right. Or there are some things you could punish me all day long.

And I still can't do it. I mean, I can't do like a backflip. You can't tell me like I was there and do a cartwheel. I mean, I still can't do that. I can't do a cartwheel either. It's fine. Like a lot younger. No, but you know what I'm saying? Like, I, if you tell me like, go over and play, you know, a Mozart concerto on the piano, I'd be like, you can punish me all day long.

I still won't be able to do it. Yeah. Do you feel like you're failing as a parent of a neurodivergent child? You're tired of cookie cutter advice that doesn't work for you or your child's unique needs. Do you feel like you're navigating this journey alone? You aren't alone. Join us each month for the Parenting Power Sessions, Autism and ADHD, where you'll discover not just support, but real, actionable strategies tailored to the unique needs of your family.

Every second Wednesday of the month at noon, Mountain Time. We explore topics like positive discipline strategies, understanding neurodivergence and enhancing self regulation skills for you and your child. Each session includes 20 minutes of expert led teaching followed by a 10 minute Q and A, where you get answers to your most pressing questions.

Best of all, it's completely free. Sign up today and join a community of parents just like you who are ready to transform their challenges into strengths. Visit www. boisimusictherapycompany. com to register. Learn It's time to feel empowered as a parent. And I've noticed that some kids, like, they honestly do not care about punishment.

Like, my mother in law told me that when my, when my husband was a child, she'd be like, if you don't do that, I'm going to send you to your room. Okay. If you don't do that, I'm going to take away your TV. Okay, I'll read a book. Well, how do you tell a kid that he can't read a book, you know? So, she was just like, anything I said, he was like, okay, I'll just go do this.

Okay, I'll just go do this, but I am not doing what you want me to do. You can give me all the punishments, but I refuse to do that. Right, but to me that also illustrates just how much, you know, that your husband at the time either wasn't able to do that thing that he was being asked or had a different need or whatever it was, right?

It, it, it is so, you know, something that you are unable to do in a moment that you would rather be sent to your room. That just, that tells you how wide the gap is. That doesn't tell you that there's something like he can't be swayed by punishment. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's a good point.

Yeah, I just think it's funny. My mother in law brings that up all the time, and my oldest son is just like my husband, and so she's like, I'm sorry. I was like, no, we just need to find, like you said, the need that's not being met, and then, you know, this will resolve itself. Well, for example, I'm doing lots of examples today.

Things just keep coming to my head. My son, On the first day of summer break, he comes into my room bright and early in the morning. Can I get on a device? I'm like, no, you can't get on a device. You have to read for 30 minutes. Why do I have to read for 30 minutes? Why I can't like, why do I have to get dressed?

Why do I have to do this? Why do I have to do that? And so I sat him down and I said, this is going to be what you need to do every day before you can get on a device. And he was like, okay. And so the next morning he comes into my room a little bit later and he's like, mom, I read, I got dressed and I can't remember what else he did.

He did something else. He's like, can I get on a device now? And I was like, Yep, for sure. Because you did all those things, you know, and so just, um, he just didn't know the expectations before and he had it in his mind that he was going to play on a device. And so when that didn't happen, you know, he got anxiety and got angry and just, um, you know, needed that.

needed that help the next day to know that, okay, I have to do all these things and now I can get on my device because he knew what he had to do before. And so that's just what we've done. Um, just an example of an unmet need being met. So, well, I, I love that too, because The question he said, he came in and asked us, why do I have to do that?

And so often we just tell kids, you have to do this, do this, do that. We don't tell them why. Well, when people tell you, you don't, don't you want to know why you have to do it? It's just right. If somebody said to me, like, I'll move over to that seat over there. The first thing I say is, well, why? Yeah. You know, and if you told me why I would do it probably easily.

Right. But if it, if it just somebody comes over and says, move over, Why? So I, you know, even if, even if they don't accept the explanation, even if they don't like the explanation, having an explanation makes it easier to meet the expectation, as you said. So I love that. Yeah. That's, I like that. Um, for sure.

Cause I've noticed that with my kids, like if I just tell them to do something, they'll be like, why? I'm like, if I say, because I said, so that's not, that's not, it's not going to happen. But if I explain to them why they might say, well, that's a stupid reason. But they're more likely to do it once they understand, but sometimes they're like, Oh, that makes sense, you know, and then they'll go on with what I asked them to do.

Yeah. And if they say that's a stupid reason, we can say like, you know what, you are totally entitled to feel that way, but it is the reason and that's what the expectation is. And they are, it still makes it easier to follow. Yeah, for sure. I love that. So, um, are there any other parenting strategies that you would like to share?

Because I think you're full of gold today. Oh, thank you. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess my overall, uh, take, I mean, I, you know, I have a lot of different strategies as we all do, but it's totally mixed with Your mindset, right? If it were just about the strategies, we could read that in a book. Do this. You'd read it, you'd do it, it would work.

But that's not how it works, right? So there's, it's always a combination. The strategies are really important. And it's also like, what am I feeling about this situation? What am I thinking about that situation? Because it's going to drive in part how you respond. And so my, what I was thinking, my overall philosophy is, is let's prioritize support over punishment.

Because Most of the time, support is the answer to getting us from where we are to where we want to be, right? And sometimes support is a, you know, it's not an instantaneous thing, it's an over time thing, but the punishment doesn't ever, you don't move along those steps. The support is the thing that makes the difference for making the progress so that the situations don't arise anymore, so that the challenges don't arise.

New challenges arise, of course, but but then you understand really how to work with your child. Yeah, and I love that goes against traditional parenting, which I know a lot of people have is that your child. Just listens to you, does what you want them to do, no questions asked, they just listen. And if they don't do that, then you're not a good parent.

I've heard that a lot. And so I love what you're saying is work with your child, learn to support them where they need it. And then probably they will have better behavior for you just because they're being supported where they need it. And they're not just being told, do this, do this, do this, do this without understanding You know, having the support they need to even complete the task.

Like you were saying, you can punish all day long, but if they can't do a cartwheel and you ask them to do a cartwheel, they're not going to like, they can't do it. You know, no matter how much you punish them. And so little things like maybe they can't put on their coat. Maybe they can't tie their shoes.

Maybe I'm thinking of like motor skills. My daughter just had an OT assessment this morning. So thinking about all the things that the OT said that she can't do. But, um. Yeah, just different things like that. Maybe they can't just sit down and do their homework without you sitting there doing it step by step with them, or maybe they can't clean their room and they're nine years old and you're like, you should be able to clean your room.

But you know the executive functioning gets you. And so, just understanding that they need support in that. You know, we've talked about this with other guests. If you go in to their room and you're like, okay, pick up these things on your floor, pick up these things on your floor. Now pick up your clothes.

Now do this now vacuum. Um, and they get it all done, but you're there supporting them and what they need. That's a great example though. I'll throw the combination of mindset and strategies, right? Yeah. And your mindset is they should be able to do this. I've showed them a million times. It, you know, everybody else can do it.

That's when you start to express anger. Your child feels that, which interferes even more with their executive function at the moment. Right? Yeah. And then, And it didn't help them make progress toward, you know, being able to clean their room. Whereas if you go in and you help break it down and you support it with the goal of ultimately helping your child do it independently, right?

This isn't about going in and cleaning up the room for them either. This is helping them build the skill that's missing. That's creating the conflict as well. So, and the other thing I was going to mention, and I hope this is okay. But one of the things that parents sometimes worry about. Is that I'm being permissive if I do that, if I'm not doing that traditional parenting thing, where, like, I make my child do it, or I punish them if they don't and.

All the people are judging us from the outside all the time. Families are saying here, if you let him get away with that, he's never going to be able to blow more. Right? But the truth is, to me, you're being permissive. It's just. You know, allowing the child to lead the way and never have any instruction or guidance, if you're considering their needs and trying to incorporate, you know, what will grow into your interaction and plan, that's not being permissive.

That's being supportive. Yes. Yeah, a lot of people might call being supportive permissive, but it's completely different. So, I love that. Okay. What resources do you have for parents or what resources do you recommend? Um, well, I, I do have, um. A coaching program that parents can participate in if they're interested and they can find that information on my website.

All right, um, And I also, I'm starting to roll out some new, um, smaller, like, mini programs to make it more accessible to parents. So they can feel how this interaction of the mindset and the strategies works because if you keep going to, you know, all of the books and everything else, that's great. I don't want to ever take away from any of those resources.

They're great. Right. If we don't deal with the internal system as well, it's not as effective. Yes. Yes. Awesome. Thank you. And where can people find you online? So, my website is autism parent solutions dot com. Um, there is a free training on the website that will tell you more about the things we discussed today.

My philosophy. Um, it also will share with you how to book a call if you think you're interested in coaching. Um, and that that's just autism parent solutions dot com forward slash apply, but you would get that also that URL in the training. Um, and I have a lot of resources on the website as well. I have.

Some interviews and articles I've written and things that are available there. Awesome. Thank you. And our last question is, what do you do for fun? Well, this is a pretty recent, uh, passion, but I started going to Pilates, which I know doesn't sound like the most fun, but as a workout option, it's kind of fun to me.

Yeah. So it's been a newer thing, but I've been doing consistently now for like, I don't know, Five months if we need a year. Uh, so that is right now what I'm doing for fun. Awesome. I love it. That's so cool. So thank you so much for coming on the show today. We really appreciate your time and definitely everyone check out her resources.

Um, cause that sounds like it could be very helpful for people. So we really appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you too.

I loved everything. She said how she started with self regulation. Before you can do the parenting strategies, you have to be regulated. You have to be like in a calm state of mind to help your child and support your child. I, I think this is something we preach often. Um, she has had a lot of things I could do a whole separate podcast and a lot of things she's said.

Yeah. Um, I have a whole lot of things I actually want to talk about this one, and I don't know that we have the time, uh, we do not, but let's hear some, um, I want to a couple of things that kind of going with strategy, like there are strategies that you have to change your mindset, like you, it's about your mind, what you're in.

And one of the things that I teach myself here. Is that like behavior plans for individuals? They're not written for individuals. They're written for us so we can learn about them and change our behavior and how we approach them. So that we can teach them to get their needs met, whatever that is. We don't change people.

We teach people. Um, and I feel like that's the same thing as like a parent. Like you need to change your mindset so that you can better successfully work with your child, you get their needs met and teaching them these skills. Um, and so I really liked that. And then, um, I want to throw this out there cause you guys talked a lot about it.

Um, behavior. Behavior is a solution to a problem. So our job, especially as a parent, is to find out what was their problem, that this is their solution, and that a lot of behavior is motivated. Like that trigger is motivated by usually four things. Escape or avoidance. I'm trying to get away from something I don't like or that I don't want to do.

Uh, a want, it's a want and I can't have it. So I want this, this or that, and I can't have it in that moment. And then sensory, sensory dysregulation. Like there's too much sensory input, not enough sensory input. Okay. Um, and then the last one, and you talked a lot about it, is social connection. It's a label at attention seeking, but we tend to disregard that when we think of it as a negative.

It's social connection. We need social connection. Um, and so, if you can kind of keep those things in mind when you are, you know, Seeing your child in a behavior kind of go back. Okay. These are generally the four motivators. Can I kind of pinpoint what, what might the, the issue be? Um, so those are kind of my two big ones, but there's a whole bunch more that she does.

Said that I loved and could elaborate on for days. Yeah. Yeah. I was, while we were talking there, I was like, Ooh, we're going to do some solo episodes on some of these different topics. And so, so watch for that to come, because definitely like I could do a whole podcast just on self regulation skills and self regulation for you, self regulation for your child, and then learning the parenting strategies and learning, just learning about neurodivergence.

In it, in and of itself, you know, just learning. The, about masking and stemming and like all the different things and that they're not bad things. They're just, they just might be different than neurotypical people, what neurotypical people do. So yeah, that is such a good episode. She was such a great, like we did not have enough time with her.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to bring her back. Yeah, we will have her back if she wants to. And if you enjoyed today's episode, let us know what you took away. Um, tag us on Instagram, give us a review. We're still trying to get to 50 reviews before episode 50. So let us know. And we'll see you next week. Bye. Thank you for listening to this episode.

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