37 - Nan Arkwright and Self-Regulation 08/04/24

Here's what to expect on the podcast:

• How does movement contribute to children's ability to regulate their emotions and behaviors?

• Nan's book series and resources.

• Why is it important for adults to be present and acknowledge children's feelings?

• Some practical ways adults can demonstrate self-regulation in daily interactions with children.

• And much more!

About Nan:

Nan is a pediatric occupational therapist who writes books about doing hard things at home and school. The books are about emotional regulation, social-emotional learning, and solving problems that come up in everyday life. Her mission is to provide tools to families that will have a positive impact on children's mental health.

Connect with Nan Arkwright!

Website: https://www.ahopskipandajumpahead.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/missioncontrolthebook

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missioncontrolthebook

Twitter: https://twitter.com/nanarkwright

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nan-arkwright-51177413…

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OwYvU7p43E

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.ph/thebadgesofpower/

Connect with Samantha Foote!

Website: www.boisemusictherapycompany.com

Email: [email protected]

Consultation: https://letsmeet.io/boisemusictherapycompany/30-mi…

TRANSCRIPTION

This podcast is for parents like you, navigating the world of neurodiversity with love and compassion. I'm a neurodivergent mother of three amazing neurodivergent children and a board certified music therapist. Our mission is to create a supportive space where you feel understood, connected, and inspired.

With practical tips, strategies, and resources, we'll help you and your child thrive in your unique way. Join us as we dive deep into the diverse world of neurodivergent individuals exploring topics like ADHD, autism, dyslexia, sensory processing challenges, and more. We'll cover it all to empower, educate, and uplift both neurodivergent individuals and those who walk alongside them.

Together we'll create a world where every brain is valued and celebrated. We're excited to embark on this enlightening journey with you. We are your hosts, Samantha Fuh and Lauren Ross, and this is the Every Brain is Different podcast.

Welcome to the Every Brain is Different podcast. We're here with Nan Arkray, and Nan is a pediatric occupational therapist who writes books about doing hard things at home and school. The books are about emotional regulation, socially emotional learning, and solving problems that come up in everyday life.

Her mission is to provide tools to families that will have a positive impact on children's mental health. Nan, we are so excited to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank you so much. I really am happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Yeah, for sure. Um, can you tell us a little bit more about how you're involved in the neurodivergent community?

I am a pediatric occupational therapist, so all the clients that I work with are neurodivergent in some way or another. And so I am supporting the families and trying to educate families, teachers. And anybody else that I can bend their ear about. 

Yeah, that's awesome. I have been wanting to get an occupational therapist on this show for a while.

So I'm so excited you're here. Oh, that's great. So if you, um, had one thing to tell parents about like self regulation or how to help their child, what would you tell them? And I know we didn't talk about this before, but it just popped into my brain. Yeah. 

Well, that's a really good question. Yeah, yeah. Um, as an occupational therapist, that is a big part of what we do, and I have really become so much of a fan of kids really using their bodies to get some of that regulation in place for them, and I just see over and over again when I try to talk with kids about challenges that they're having on the playground, for example, That's what most of the conversations actually are about, where the kids are upset and don't know what to do, and they are squirming and wiggling and upside down and rolling around.

I have swings in my clinic, of course, and so they are taking advantage of that, and they are all over the place with their bodies. And so I really see how our minds and bodies are connected and how important that is for them to be able to have an outlet for all that energy that's inside of them. So I really think that if, uh, parents were able to have more opportunities for kids to move and if teachers had more opportunities also besides recess, there would be, it would make it easier for kids to regulate in the classroom.

Yeah, absolutely. I have noticed that when I'm doing music therapy and a kid is moving around a lot, I used to be like, stop moving. You know, we're, we're talking right now, but now I'm, I am very not proud that I used to do that, but now I I'm like, okay, you need to move. You need to be walking while we're talking, or you need to be walking while we're making music, or you need to sit upside down or whatever you need.

Like. Let's do that. Let's self help you self regulate so that you can pay attention to what we're doing. 

Right. It's just, I mean, if you let a child have a confined space, like my clinic, for example, and they will take advantage of that space if you allow them. Walking it, like I said, turning upside down on swings, rolling around, whatever.

It can be hard, I think, for many fam, other adults to be able to focus themselves on the conversation as their child is doing all of this, but I'm used to it, and so it doesn't bother me, and I feel like, great, I think that's running your, that's driving your brain, that's the energy behind what's going on inside of your, with your thoughts.

Yeah, yeah, I was listening to a class yesterday about gestalt language processors, and she said, it was by an SLP, it's Meaningful Speech, and she said that gestalt language processors talk more with spontaneous language. When they are moving and they're, they might like flip them upside down and then they'll start talking where if they're right side up, they can't talk.

And so I just think that's so interesting that like self regulation and movement and the way your body is in space can affect the way that you're talking and cognitive skills. 

Yeah, and you know, in the classroom, kids are expected to sit on the circle and expected to sit in their desk and every hour and a half they might get a break.

And it's so hard for them. And the expectations in the classroom, you know, they're so advanced and, and demanding. And it's just really, really hard for kids. They all want to do what's expected. They all want to do the same, what the teacher is asking. And it's so hard for them.

Yeah, for sure. Um, I know that a lot of teachers that I know are starting to do brain breaks, which seem to be helping, um, that they can.

Brain, yeah, brain breaks. Yeah. What are you hearing about that? That's great awareness. Yeah, they option for kids. 

They just put a video up on YouTube and they'll like do a song and dance or they'll do like a You know repeat after me or do you like follow the leader? or something like that and They just have those brain breaks so that the kids don't have to sit there for so long and not moving that they're able to get up and move around and do what they need to do.

Or they have standing desks where they have like a desk in the back of the room and if a kid needs to stand up or like, you know, sway back and forth or whatever they need to do, they can have that opportunity and they're not like standing up at their own desk, maybe in front of other kids. 

Right, right.

I did see one teacher when I went in for a class up room observation one time who actually had the table where the kids were writing really low. So the kids actually sat on the floor and then they could do their writing. And that table was highly coveted as a place for kids to go. And so I think all kinds of options for seating is.

So important for kids to be able to have the wiggly seats like there's some that you can just put on a chair and you can wiggle from there or they are the little stools they can sit on so many things to try to keep their vestibular system alert and so that they can focus more because they are moving.

Yeah, for sure. I went to a class, well, I went to my son's like reading thing and they just invited the parents to come read with the students and then the librarian came from the local library and she was doing a presentation and there are these girls there that were, they were supposed to be sitting on these chairs that were made for like wigglers or whatever, but they, I guess they were wiggling too much because the teacher came over and she said, you need to stop.

You need to sit still. Yeah. And just focus on what the person is saying and I was so sad I was like they they're telling you something like they they can't focus right now. I guarantee you that even though they were sitting still they were not focusing on what the teacher was saying. 

I can't guarantee.

Yeah. 

I'm not blaming the teacher or anything like they're just doing you know what they think is best so I don't want that to come across like that but just if a kid is wiggly. They're not going to pay attention more if they stop wiggling, 

right? Right. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

And if you do, like sometimes in therapy, I do say to a child, I want you to hold your body still sit or stand, put your feet right here like this.

I want you to listen. And I have one short sentence, but I, but it's also an emphasis on the message by having them do something different and zero in. But it can't be more than one short sentence because that's all they can stand still for, or sit still for, to listen to an important message. So it takes a lot of thought on our part as an adult to, to be able to filter out all the thoughts in our heads and bring it down, that funnel it down into one quick message that we want them to take with them.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. So you. Moving on, um, you are an author. You have a collection of books. Can you tell us more about the books and their purpose? I just think they're amazing. 

Oh, thank you. Well, I have 17 books that I've written. Only one is currently on Amazon. That's called Mission Control. Sorry.

Yeah. Mission Control, A Big Feelings Adventure. And it is all about self regulation. What to do when kids are, if a child is. It's for children, but how it tells the story of a boy who learns how to regulate and in the end come out feeling like, okay, I learned something from that big outburst and tomorrow I have new tools to.

manage those big feelings a little bit more, uh, capably. And so most of the books are some variation of that theme of regulating. So one of the, um, the one that, uh, is also even about regulating is Tijuana Mañana, the Anxious Iguana. And that's about An iguana who has a really hard time with sight words, you can substitute any behavior in there.

I just use sight words because I was inspired by a child who hid under my table when I said, show me the sight words you're practicing. And, and so that was fight or flight in action. And so I thought, boy, this is just so telling of what. many kids feel like. And I, when I observe in school, I see it all the time, hiding under the train table with anything to try to be protecting themselves.

And so the story is about your brain doing its job by when you're fleeing or fighting or freezing. And when you're feeling that way, you're going, if we can recognize that that's the state the child is in, We stop all our words, and we just try to be present with the child while they go through that emotional, through that transition, through that temporary mode they're in of being in fight or flight.

And then when they're out of that situation, then they can start thinking about what to do, and with the help of an adult, and learn from the situation. But. In the story, what I was trying to promote really is an understanding for the child of what that is, what really is going on when you're having an upset about something like sight words, because Kids do think they must be quote unquote bad kids if they're doing that and that's not the case.

The main purpose I had in writing that was trying to let kids know that it's just your brain doing its job. And we can actually prepare For those situations that we know are challenging to us that tend to send us in the fight or flight. And so I wrote an accompanying journal to go with that book. So that a parent and a child or a teacher and a child can sit down and fill in the blanks.

Just like Tijuana in the story did so that he had a plan for what to do. And the main idea behind this that I see with kids is if you can make it fun. If they can do it with somebody else. And it's short and adding movement. All those things are great pieces of any activity that you're asking a child to do that isn't all that fun for them or that they perceive to be threatening.

So, and then I have a series of books with Seymour, who is Blue for the Boobie, and those are series of books also about regulation. Like, how do you, so the one that I have a free gift for your listeners today is, uh, Mindful See More Pauses, Waiting in Line, but it's waiting anytime. So, I wrote the story about, because kids, I have social skills groups with kids too.

And so that's where I get most of the material for writing my stories, but also my individual sessions because I get a completely different, I get completely different information from my individual sessions. But I see that kids cannot wait, that's why they're taking the toys, that's why they're, they're not even aware lots of times of what's going on around them.

So the biggest thing that I see so often in my social skills groups is that kids do have a narrow vision of what is. For example, in the story, Seymour sees a red ball on the ball rack at recess, and he has eyes for that ball, and he's unaware that there's a line to wait in. He's unaware that other people might also be wanting a turn to get that, a ball, and maybe even the same red ball as he has.

And so he has a sister who is The surrogate mom in the story who helps guide him and helps him say, Whoa, wait, just a minute. Like when you went charging after that ball. There was an impact on other people. And so he puts on these goggles that show him what was actually the bigger picture is going on around him.

And so then he's like, Oh, I had no idea. Thanks for sharing. Now, his sister said, Would you like me to show you how it works and what to notice and pay attention to. And so she teaches him. He's like, Oh, sure, I'll do that. And then he learns like, Oh, when you wait in line, there are things that you can do so it doesn't feel so boring.

So I have the other little birds in line. Talking a modeling that they're talking about. Oh, when we get a ball, what game do you want to play or things like that? And so I'm trying to show parents and teachers as well as the kids how to help get through a waiting situation. So, the. There will be at the book is not out yet, but I'm trying to get it out along with Tijuana Manana.

Those are my next ones to get out and I have all my website also all kinds of support materials for parents as well as activities for kids for all the books that I've written. So those will be online but I wanted to share the. handout that I have that it has all kinds of information about weighting, like what kind of activities kids can do, uh, and even quotes about the value of weighting, all kinds of information that I think will, parents and teachers will find very valuable to help kids learn about weighting.

Yeah, that's great information. I know that I'm always looking for new ways to help kids, you know, work on social emotional skills, self regulation, weighting, all of that, because if you don't, if you can't self regulate and you don't have the social emotional awareness, then it just makes everything else in life a lot 

harder.

I think. It does. And people misunderstand your behaviors. 

Yes. Yeah. 

No kid is doing any of that on purpose, just like in Seymour and the story. They just don't know. Yeah, so need explicit training. 

Yeah. And I always tell parents all behavior is communication. Kids aren't doing stuff just to do it. They're doing it to communicate something to you.

So just be aware of what they're communicating. 

Yeah. Ask the big curious, what, what's going on for my child right now that I'm seeing is hard for him or her. Um, yeah, but we get busy and forget to ask that question, and kids can't tell us other than with their bodies or with their actions. 

Yeah, for sure.

Um, what, what recommendations do you have for parents whose kid might just go into that, excuse me, might go into that freeze where they refuse to do anything, they're on the ground, maybe just. ignoring everything and just refusing to do anything. How do you be there with them and support them? 

I have certainly had kids who do that.

And really the brain is like Dan Siegel has coined this phrase upstairs brain and downstairs brain. And so when the downstairs brain, which is the emotional brain. No thinking going on there. It's the part of the brain that keeps us alive. And when, and so if you're in fight or flight or freeze, you're just trying to stay alive.

And the frontal lobes and the thinking part of the brain is really just not online. So there's no point in even trying to talk with a child or be reasonable. And it's so hard not to do that. Like if you just did it, you'd be finished in five minutes. You know, those kind of messages like it doesn't work, not that the idea isn't logical or makes sense.

It's just that the child can't hear it in the moment. So, Kids can get overwhelmed by more words also, so words are the upstairs brain, and so just keeping in mind that the child is not available to solve problems in the moment. They're only trying to stay alive in the moment, so helping make the place where they are safe.

for them so they don't feel that they have to escape or they don't feel like they have to stay shut down or they don't have to fight, which is not all that easy to do. Um, just, I just sit with kids and I just say, I see you're not ready right now. Let's take a break. and give them permission to do what they're going to do anyway, rather than trying to guide them into another state when it's not possible to do that.

So I just join them where they are and that's going to take some time. And when they don't feel the pressure, when they don't feel like there's a demand on them, they can recover and move out of that fight or flight state or free state and now they're available again. But it can take time. 

Yeah, that's what's hard is you never know how much time it's going to take.

So I know with my kids, like they, I have my one son goes into breeze mode a lot. And so. I, I don't know how long it's going to take him to come out of that. But if we have to go somewhere, we have to be somewhere. I'm like, come on, we have to go. And then that just makes the situation even worse. So just being there with them and letting them take their time.

And you know what, if you're late somewhere. No one, no one's gonna die. That's 

right. And I think that knowing like there are certain situations that are likely to lead to that state. And so, if you are going to have to go through. If that situation is occurring, and you know, oh, tomorrow I'm going to have to be at this place by 10 o'clock, and there's a possibility that my child will have a difficult time being ready to make that transition with me, then you can Nobody likes to get up earlier, but you can plan to allow that time.

And then if you don't need it, yeah, you've got bonus time to do something different. But I think that that, I think that what I see so often is that even though parents know that these situations can occur, it can be still hard for them to plan for those situations. 

Yeah, because sometimes it happens, sometimes it happens when we're walking out the door and I just say, get your shoes on and then.

He takes that as You know a demand and he has a pathological demand avoidance And so anytime I ask him to do something He takes that as a demand and then he shuts down so I have to word things very carefully 

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you're really thoughtful about how to do that and that does matter and I think that it is definitely a challenge because it is unpredictable.

Some days, I'm sure you're seeing like, oh, you can say, let's get, let's get in the car and it's fine. And other days, like why? So the big question, and it's not all, I mean, kids can't usually tell us why, but if we can sort of look for patterns, like take Record things and say what might have been going on in that moment, and then maybe you might be able to come back with your child later and say, was this what was making it difficult for you to get out the door when it was time?

And then it's kind of a puzzle to solve, but a very difficult one, especially when the child is young and really can't communicate a lot with you. Or has another reason why communication is difficult. It falls on us as adults to try to figure it out. And it's not easy, but as a therapist, you, you and I both know and learn too that We have a lot of experience with other kids, so we have some starting place, lots of times, to try to figure out what might be going on, whereas parents have one child, and often it's their first child.

Well, I mean, it can be any child, but when it's their first child, then they really are not sure, like, is this typical of development, or is there something that I don't know about that I could be doing differently? It's really hard to even begin to guess what might be going on. 

Yeah, definitely. Hey there, it's Samantha.

Are you a dedicated parent overwhelmed with navigating the unique challenges of raising a neurodivergent child? You find it tough to understand impulsive behaviors, manage transitions, address educational concerns, handle sensory stimulation, and navigate social interaction struggles. The good news is you aren't alone.

Here at Every Brain Is Different, we're excited to announce our new membership program, Parenting Your Neurodivergent Child. This is a community of parents working to enhance connections with their kids and gain a deeper understanding of their unique needs. With expert insights on positive parenting strategies and neuroaffirming practices, you will have concrete strategies to help your child succeed.

You'll have opportunities to ask questions, hear from other parents, And feel empowered as a parent and finally feel peace in your home. Join us on the second and third Thursdays of each month on Zoom. Visit www. everybrainisdifferent. com for more details. Let's embark on this journey together. 

How important do you think it is for parents to model these, these things, these self regulations, like, coping skills and, and waiting, like, do you think that's really important or what are your thoughts on that?

I hear people making that recommendation often. Just sort of self talking out loud about what they're doing to be patient over something because driving in traffic is a perfect time to do that and say, Oh boy, that car cut in front of me and I'm going to take some deep breaths because I didn't like what happened, but I don't really have any control over what that other person does so you can teach how to think through things by talking about it.

I think it feels probably a little Not being stilted or contrived by the parent to do that, but finding a more natural way for it to just be shared naturally, but not looking for ways that do sound sort of awkward because that feels uncomfortable to people to listen to also. So I think looking for natural situations where you can occur and say, oh, it looks like we might be late like you were saying, Samantha, and I am thinking about what to do.

Like you wouldn't maybe be able to do that in the moment, but because if he's avoiding going out the door, probably not a good time to think about that. But other times you can say, Oh boy, my alarm didn't go off on time. So now I'm going to be a little late. I'm trying to think what to do so that. There's not a problem as a result of that.

Something like that. I think it becomes natural or there's so many things where traffic gets in the way or a last minute phone call all those kind of things where there are opportunities to model. And if we don't teach kids how to handle unexpected events, then they don't know. And then it And if they don't realize that they are all situations that can be solved, maybe not ideally, but they can be solved, that's also a big thing.

So it's also teaching problem solving for kids, that problems can be solved. And that's one of the things I really spend a lot of time trying to support kids with and teach parents about, like, look for every possible opportunity to solve a problem. Because, um, like yesterday, I had a boy and he was dragging pillows around trying to make a big stack out of the big pillows that I have and he was asking for a help.

And I said, well. I, I was trying to encourage him to actually solve it himself because it was solvable. He did not actually need my help. And so of course he does. He can completely capable of doing it. And so those are opportunities, little tiny ones, but looking for them and Encouraging a child so that then you can say, Oh, you did figure it out.

Look at that. I'm really like seeing how you solve that problem. So there's acknowledgement that. Uh, of a behavior that a child did that's approximating your vision in your head about how you want your child to learn those problem solving skills. So every single time it's building those experiences that are positive and building the confidence and self esteem like, I can solve problems.

That's great. I love all those suggestions. Lauren, did you have anything else? 

I'm 

enjoying the conversation. 

So, I was also going to share about more of the books that I have about regulation. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Also about Kido, who is a giraffe, and he struggles with solving problems, which made me think of, oh, I should share about that too.

And so it, I find that the best value for my time is reading stories to kids. because they do relate to the characters. I wrote the stories based on the things that I run up, that I encounter in my sessions all the time, over and over and over again. So that's where the stories come from. And I'm trying to show kids, like I said already, here's how you manage this situation.

But I'm also trying to show parents how important it is, especially through this keto series. Do what we already talked about, Samantha, about just being present with a child, not having a place to go, not pressuring to to be somewhere else or thinking about your grocery list and those kind of things, but truly trying to be show empathy for your child in that moment that this must be hard and remembering.

My child is four and he doesn't have or she doesn't have very many ideas of how to solve this problem. The child is experiencing these big feelings and doesn't understand it. So being present and being able to help the child. understand what's going on with their body. Where do you feel that big feeling is when I ask kids that they often say, Well, I don't know.

But then if I asked them to really pause and think about it for a minute, they can find where in their body these big feelings are happening. And most often they say in their head, and even very specifically, they'll point to where in their head they're feeling it. And so I think that When parents are able and teachers are able to understand, children are learning and we have to guide them because they don't know.

And the only way that they know is by modeling for them, teaching them. But also that's why I like the books because then it's not a lot of talk. You, I can totally keep the child engaged. I can read a story to my social skills group and they will all listen attentively. I can reinforce all the messages with activities I mentioned I have, will have on the website as soon as all the books are out.

And Then you have a common language, like, oh, remember what Seymour did? Do you think you could do the same thing as Seymour? It goes a very long way to try it because they do want to be like that character. Every child wants to be that child who can do the things that are expected, like is shown in the story.

Like we stand in line, or we manage our big emotions. Like we have, we, we can talk to our friends. Like that's what Kido does in one of the stories. He doesn't like losing. So that's a big thing for many children. And so he actually has other little animals and Serengeti that he, that helped. The character Kido solve problems that come up and, and they are solutions of the emotional regulation.

I hear what you're saying. That must be hard. That's happened to me before. I know what that's like. You know what? Have you ever thought of this? And so the idea that I. put into all the books, but that one in particular is, let's make a plan. Because when kids know what to expect, things go better. And parents do tell me frequently that they say to their child, when we go into target, this is what you can expect.

on the first day of school or when you go to NANS for the first time, whatever, here's what to expect. And they say it really matters. And when they forget, they see the difference. And so that's why the value of the plan, especially in the books about keto that I've written, matter. It's really modeled in those stories, the plan, as well as someone taking time to stop and listen and feel the child's situation.

And And acknowledge that and not be in a rush to be somewhere else or do something else or get through it. It's both adult and child managing the uncomfortable feelings that have come up. And that's not only difficult for the child, but often also difficult for the adult to Be able to sit uncomfortably while a child is having an upset to sit uncomfortably while a child is, is not communicating with you.

It's an uncomfortable place to be, and it's only, I mean, I, I see it so often that I'm used to doing it, and I know there will be an end to it, but. A lot of parents like I've worked through it and and coached parents along in the moment when a child's having an upset and they don't understand. They don't always know that it can last 30 minutes and But it comes to an end.

And a lot of parents have said, Oh, I thought that if it didn't end in a few minutes, that it's not going to end unless I give in. And, but it can take a long, long time. And so holding on for a little bit. can be helpful because it does end, and kids can learn from it, and the next time they know that they are okay, even though that was a difficult time, they know they're still okay in the end because the parents sat with them, the parent understood, the parent helped them grow from it, the parent told the story of what happened in a way that the child could be seen, and it can see himself or herself in the end as someone who whose brain grew from the situation and has new tools for the next time.

So that's the main message I'm trying to get across to kids is your brain grows every time you something difficult happens and you can do this. 

Yeah, that's really important for kids to know that and parents to know that you don't have to give in that It will stop eventually. It might take a while, but it will stop.

And just be patient. You just gotta be patient with kids and not hurry them along, I guess. 

Yes. Yes. 

So, where can people find you if they want to learn more about this? 

Um, I am on, I, I'm not really very, um, busy on Facebook or Instagram, but I am, uh, there. My website is probably the best place to go, actually, um, and that's www.

ahopskipandajumpahead. And on there, like I mentioned already, information about my books, what all the, the, the books are listed there and what they're about. And as I get the books out, I'll be adding the. handouts and the resources for the parents and the teachers, um, as the books come out. But also on there are some videos of other, uh, interviews I've done, like for the Mission Controlled Big Feelings Adventure and Tijuana Mañana the Anxious Iguana.

Both of those I've I've done interviews with the illustrator, and so there's a lot of extra information if you listen to the, those videos, because he talks about why he drew the pictures the way he did, and I talk about why I added certain things into the story. So if a parent is wanting to get the most value out of reading a story to a child, so that it can be customized to the child, because I read every book specifically, for that particular child's needs.

All that kind of information is available on the videos. Some of them haven't been loaded yet. I'm waiting for people to send me the videos so I can load them on the computer. And then, um, also there's a lot of information already on the website, like lots of activities for kids and lots of back, um, story information for adults about motion control, big feelings, adventure on the website.

Great. That's awesome. Definitely go check that out. If you're interested in learning more about self regulation and I'm 

sorry. What? Well, I was just going to say the offer for the first. Um, if again, if you go to a hop, skip and a jump ahead slash podcast freebie, that's something that, um, I have set aside just for.

Your listeners. 

Oh, awesome. Well, thank you. 

We appreciate that. And that's the waiting information that I described earlier. 

Yes. And last question. What do you do for fun? 

Oh, you know, I've been trying to have more fun lately. I've been specifically like trying to focus on that because I do bigger things like travel.

which I love a lot, and I do a lot of hiking and biking, but I'm looking for time. I'm trying to carve out time for other things, more reading and also more time to get out and just enjoy nature. That's what, that's my happy place and where I spend time whenever I can. 

I love it. 

Love it. 

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

We really appreciate it. 

Really enjoyed talking with both of you. 

And once again, check out her website and let us know what you thought of the episode and any takeaways that any of you might have. We really appreciate your feedback.

I liked her and I like her stories about all the different characters, especially Tijuana Manana, the Anxious Iguana. 

I love it. She said. All of the names. Really? I was, I popped on the website and I looked, I was just like instantly drawn to it and I really love Seymour. Mindful Seymour, um, I don't have kids, but I kind of want to read all of these books, so.

You having kids, you should read them and let me know. 

Yeah, I, well, my kids have issues with waiting and self regulation and anxiety and all the things. So, I will be getting these books and reading them to my kids. And also my clients because, you know, we're doing social skills and social emotional stuff all the time.

So, yeah, definitely. I'm going to be working with 

them. I think she had a lot of great things that I think sometimes we, as adults, forget. And one of them being patience, especially with time. I feel like we're always on the go. We have something to do, somewhere to be, like time is money, like that's like been ingrained into us.

And so, 

yeah, 

when we have to stop because, you know, child's, you know, having a meltdown or needs help. That's like, It's like a train going to an absolute halt when you're just like always on the go and so I think that causes frustration in parents and then they struggle with the, just being there with their child and.

You know, supporting them through whatever it is, no matter how long it takes. Um, and so I think just again, going back to that patience and if you're late, you're late, it is not the, it's not the end of the world. Um, you know, unless you're late to like pressing the stop button for self destruction, like.

It's okay to take a deep breath. So I think that's, um, important. And then I also think another takeaway I got is like small amounts of information, like having brain breaks in school, like our attention span, even as adults is not that great, I can't even imagine for a child, um, that it is important to have those.

short to the point, leave all the extra out, allow those breaks. And again, just because a child's moving or wiggling does not mean they are not paying attention. That is what they are doing so that they can pay attention and to kind of acknowledge and accept that, that they're not doing it just to do it or to be disrespectful or cause they don't care.

They're not listening. It's what they need. To be able to listen and focus. And 

so. 

I. 

Yeah. I love that. Definitely. Just. Moving your body. If you need to move your body. Then, well, if kids need to move their body, let them do that. And if they're not making eye contact with you, if they're not, no, you can tell when a kid is like checked out and not listening to you.

And you can tell when they're just moving because they need to. Yeah. Um, and then a lot of times if I don't know if a kid is listening or not and they're moving, I say, what did I just say? And then you know, if they can't repeat it back to you. And then if they can't repeat it back to me, then I say, Okay, I need you to stop for a second and focus on what I'm saying.

And like she said, make it short. Make it one sentence. And that's all I do because that's all they can pay attention to. 

So. 

And then 

also. To go back, you know, when your child is in fight or flight mode, keep it short, sweet, be specific in what you want them to do. They're not processing language as effectively as they normally would.

Um, and so again, short, to the point, if you want them to do something, give them something that they know how. To do very concrete, um, it's going to be way more helpful than, you know, explaining to someone in fight or flight mode, like why you need them to get their shoes on right now because they don't care.

So yeah, just short, sweet, support them through it. It'll be okay. 

Yeah, for sure. And I just thought it was interesting what I This sounds funny. I thought it was interesting what I brought up. No. For meaningful speech, um, I've been taking her course in Gestalt Language Processors. And if you don't know what Gestalt Language Processors mean, it's just they acquire language differently than a typical, typically developing person.

So they do it in chunks. They might see on TV someone say, I don't, or I want apples if someone's hungry and so then they take that to mean I want apples means I'm hungry so they will say I want apples every time they're hungry and they don't want apples they just want food, you know, so I thought it was so interesting that just by having a self regulated body and moving can increase spontaneous speech in those speakers.

I, I love that and I will definitely be using that because I have quite a few kids that I know that are salt language processors. So just, if your kid speaks like that, we are going to have an episode about this in the future. But, yeah, I just thought that was super interesting. I 

like it. 

Yeah, so let us know your takeaways.

What did you like from Nan? Uh, what feedback do you have for us? Let us know. 

Don't forget to go to her website and do the slash podcast freebie to get your freebie 

And we'll have that in the show notes, so 

we'll talk to y'all next week. Bye! Thank you for listening to this episode. We hope the discussion on neurodiversity has provided you with support, understanding, and inspiration.

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